O Sensei did indeed go to Manchuria accompanying Onisaburo Deguchi supposedly to create a paradise on earth.There was talk of connection to Chinese rebels and the party was arrested put in chains and ordered to be executed by firing squad. Only the intervention of a Japanese diplomat prevented their execution. Not exactly a climate for exchange of cultures. regards koyo O Sensei third from left.
While not directly answering your question this piece is interesting: http://www.aikidojournal.com/?id=2610 There has been a lot written about O-Senseis time in China, some say he was a spy for the Japanese military. It is said that his Aikido changed after his time in China in the 1930's. I've always wondered why was that?
O Sensei Ueshiba died on 26th april 1969.At that time he had been in Iwama STILL developing his aikido with Morihiro Saito shihan.O Sensei must have been exposed to countless influences during his life. To attempt to say that a particular art "changed" his aikido seams incorrect. Indeed some say numerous swordschools influenced O Sensei in particular Kashima shinto ryu and Katori shinto ryu. I was told that he would invite masters of these arts to teach or demonstrate at his dojo but simply observed. Bottom line I would leave to Sekiys shihan who said "Whatever O Sensei saw or practiced became aikido." Below left in composite one of the last photos taken of O Sensei while he was still developing his aikido.
Well...... Actually the truth is pretty strange, and the photo in question was doctored...twice. The book referenced was published in multiple editions. In later editions the makimono were airbrushed, one time to say Daito ryu aikibudo and later to say Aikido. Stan Pranin of Aikido Journal showed me the different editions at his home many years ago. He confronted the Aikikai back in the 1980's about this bit of revisionist history and they admitted it, saying (with a straight face) that all of the versions were essentially correct....LOL In the early days of aikido's popularity, the Aikikai leadership significantly downplayed the influence of Daito ryu on Ueshiba. Thanks to trailblazer historian, Stan Pranin, the Aikikai was forced to acknowledge Sokaku Takeda and Daito ryu as the dominanting technical influence on Aikido. Thru the continuing research of people like Ellis Amdur we are discovering that Daito ryu most probably has it roots in Edo period jujutsu schools and is not the 900 year old tradition many claim it to be. Respects, Toby Threadgill / TSYR
Slight correction......No body is claiming Katori Shinto ryu influenced Aikido. Kashima Shinto ryu, yes. Also Kukishin ryu as Ueshiba had a very close friendship with the kuki family. Although it is true Tenjin Shinyo ryu was practiced by Ueshiba it appears lilttle or no influence from this Jujutsu school survives in aikido. Regards, Toby Threadgill / TSYR
Ueshiba Morihei's name is listed on the eimeiroku of Kashima Shinto-ryu in Ibaraki prefecture. It's not too far from Iwama. This also explains why Iwama-ryu Aiki-ken kumitachi are very similar to Kashima Shinto-ryu kata, specifically ichi no tachi. There are pictures of Kuki Takaharu and Morihei Ueshiba together. Ueshiba was a student of Kukishin-ryu & Takagi-ryu (Both schools are taught together traditionally) from 1918 until the mid-late 1960's, just before his passing. He reportedly had a high ranking licence in the ryuha. Indeed, Daito-ryu certainly doesn't really have the feel of any warring states period close combat system, apart from the Ippon dori oyo-waza done armed with tachi & kodachi. Everything else is pretty much standard fare Edo-jidai jujutsu: Lapel grabs, wrist grabs, sleeve grabs, hair grabs, fist attacks, etc. No evidence of yoroi kumi uchi or kogusoku technique.
Kogusoku and Toby. My thanks for the information and the trouble you have taken to post. Toby, I met Stan Pranin on numerous occasions when he was interprating for Saito shihan. Without doubt THE finest and unbiased historian of aikido and related arts. Below with Stan Pranin and Saito Shihan. regards koyo I must leap on this chance for information.It has been my understanding that the kumi uchi was a part of the Minamoto forms of armoured grappling and was handed down to the Takeda a branch clan of the Minamoto and that Daito Ryu was taught by Sokaku Takeda. Any information and clarification most appreciated. regards koyo
O'Sensei went to Shizuoka regularly to visit the Yoseikan. While there, I think he would have seen Mochizuki Kancho and his students practice Katori. If by observing KSR he learnt it, the same could be said about TSKSR. In Yoseikan we have maintained the Tehodoki of Tenjin Shinyo Ryu. These have been selectively removed by other styles. But they were there. I have even heard Saito Sensei state that O'Sensei taught these things to him. I can only assume he taught his students. Regards,
Remember Daito Ryu was actually called Oshi-ki-uchi, "inside the house" before Takeda. Hence, the grappling was not Yoroi Kumiuchi (grappling in armour), it was for use inside the house (castle) when not wearing armour or carrying a sword. regards,
Saito Shihan occasionally gave "special" classes where he taught techniques not often shown.One of my favourites was the ara waza (severe) techniques. These wre taught to instructors who may have had to prove the effectiveness of aikido when it was first being spread outside of Japan. Saito shihan had gained such a knowledge of aikido while training with O Sensei in Iwama that it is a tragedy that much has not been caught on video. regards koyo
Saito Sensei states that O'Sensei taught three methods of escaping a gyaku hanmi katate dori. Did he ever demonstrate these? Regards,
Yes, this is the stock answer given by a lot of the budo historians. Now from an objective standpoint, (As you said, you're a scientist) find scrolls or documentation listing Daito-ryu or Oshiki Uchi prior to the Meiji restoration that can be used as substantial evidence. Ueshiba formally studied Kashima Shinto-ryu kenjutsu. There were several entries where his name is documented over a substantial period of time. Doing kengaku (observing practice) is not the same as formal instruction in such a volumous ryuha as Tenshin Shoden katori Shinto-ryu (bear in mind, it contains iai, ken, naginata, yari, shuriken, yawara, etc). The same could not be said about TSKSR. Toby could demonstrate to you a couple of techniques from the koryu he teaches and I could from the one I teach. Without a video camera you're not going to remember them easily, that takes constant training.
You may be reffering to this type of training. From gyaku hanmi you raise the handblade to shomen , cut it free with the other hand and enter.(yodan) turn the handblade like tenkan and grasp the opponent's hand cut it past your hip again enter to the side (chudan) turn the thumb and splay the fingers down and cut free with the other hand grasping the opponent's hand gyaku (your palm up) (gedan) enter to the side These were just three means of escape. Saito Shihan had a bewildering amount of alternate techniques. Also Saito shhian always began his classes with tai no henko in three manners omote ura and kaiten. regards koyo A few quotes from Saito shihan that some aikido found "uncomfortable" Flowing techniques should not be attampted until 3rd dan. ALL omote techniques should be instigated by the aikidoka not waiting for an attack.
Are you sure it came from Ueshiba sensei's teachings? Remember, Mochizuki sensei did get around in budo circles. He was learning Katori Shinto-ryu, Kodokan judo from Mifune Kyuzo (and on a very brief part, Kano Jigoro), and karate in addition to Daito-ryu aikijujutsu and aikido. Now, it's no secret that Kano Jigoro was a menkyo kaiden in Tenjin Shinyo-ryu (His makimono are still on display at the Kodokan if I remember correctly) and according to films taken of Mifune Kyuzo, he was no stranger to techniques of that ryuha either.
I agree with you on this. But a lack of documentation does not mean it is not true. Look at Kyushu. Their relative independence from main land Japan meant that the martial arts schools studied by their samurai were not recorded in the lists of Koryu, I have forgotten the names of these lists, when I was doing research into Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu I came across these. The fact the Oshi-ki-uchi was a secret “inside art” of the Aizu means that it will not be listed ANYWHERE. This is rather annoying from the point of view of a scientist. But just because we have no scientific evidence of a "God" what does that mean… I do agree with you. But I ask myself, based on my logic and knowledge, is it possible, is it logical? I think it is more plausible, then fantasy. So until someone has a more plausible theory I am sticking with it. Hopefully it won’t involve Super Strings The fact as PUBLISHED on Aikido journal is the O'Sensei did do a keppan with KSR, but he did not learn it by swinging a sword, he had others do this and he watched, specifically Kisshomaru. I am not saying he masted the art(s), just that he learnt things. Remember the Japanese belief is that once you master one thing, you have mastered all. I like the story of him teaching naginata, even though he only placed a naginata book on the kamiza... Mochizuki Kancho says he has vivid memories of all his martial arts lessons. Regards,
FANTASTIC! In budo only the first one is show, as it is the first part of irimi nage. The chudan version is our kihon. THANK YOU, Thank You, thank you. Regards,
See the posts above. Yes it was from O'Sensei. Mochizuki Kancho did not actually learn techniques from Kano (this is what I have been told). While at the Kodokan he was very into his competition. Also, these things were not included in Mifune's goshijutsu, Kancho's primary teacher at the Kodokan.
I was shown that the principles of swordsamnship relate directly to the empty hand techniques more so than the mechanics.Example the triangular posture demanded in aikido and aiki ken is not always used in classical swordwork.However the principles of zanshin, ki ken tai ichi. maai and sen are all instantly applicable. Perhaps it was these principles that O Sensei was "studying" when he obseved classes. regards koyo
I was taught suddenly CUT at the opponent as he approaches to draw up his hand in defence execute a technique. As the opponent attacks CUT his attack aside execute a rechnique. If suddenly attacked enter to the side and CUT at the opponent execute a technique. These were explained as sen principles. But my point is CUT. When attacked do not fight the opponent. FENCE HIM. THis to me is the essence of aikido.So of course I agree with the above post. regards koyo
