Do Female MA's need Self Defense courses?

There will be guys playing the aggressor regardless of what type of setup it is. In a women-only SD course, the attackers will still be guys for the very reason you mentioned.

And it'll never be one of the other students (guy or no) dressed up in the Red Man suit. It'll be a "professional" bad guy.

Not necessarily. Bear in mind that most men, even martial artists, don't have a much better idea of how to properly defend themselves than women. They may have bulk on their side. But I don't think it'll be an indicator of quality really.

You're right that some women feel more comfortable in a women-only environment. And it kinda makes sense. If a woman wants to learn SD because she's been victimized in the past, then the SD course may well dredge up some pretty intense feelings. And it may be easier for her to either share or move past those reactions in a class of other women rather than a mixed class.

Not to say that guys don't get victimized and have intense reactions as well. The road runs both ways and I'd guess that some guys would rather learn in a men-only course as well. I don't know.


Stuart

 

Lots of good input here

Its really hard to make a "general" comment about your original question.

We are taking a lot for granted on both ends of the spectrum. Hard for me to know how well your martial arts addressed "street type" situations, and as stated in previous posts, "not all Self Defense courses cut the mustard" so to speak.

I think you need to evaluate your own "readiness" on several levels. Can you stop an opponent quickly, decisively and without harming them?, can you stop an opponent dead in their tracks... so they will be incapable to ever inflict damage to anyone again? I am stating these two opposite extremes because I realize there is no actual correct answer. Each of us requires a personal level that only we judge for ourselves.

I tend to feel that a course is worthwhile if I can get one good idea out of it. Good martial artists only need the idea. THey can work out the specifics by themselves. If you see a SElf defense course that "interests" you, by all means give it a whirl. It can only serve to educate you, even if its only an education of what not to do!

My best

Pete Ticali

 

Wow. First off, this is a great thread, with incredibly balanced, very thoughtful commentary from everyone. I'm glad I posted. Hmmmm...everyone makes good points, indeed. So, without further adieu ...

Drunken Miss Ho, not a clam bar brawler :cry: (sniff, sob, pout) . Cool. What you might want to consider is how a program such as AWARE, with a focus on firearms, can be of great value. In what way, you might ask?


To qualify: I'm an owner of several firearms, and I've fired everything from Mk II Sten guns on full-auto (that was my first firearms purchase fresh out of college via Class III Federal Firearms License transfer) to AKM's to MP-44 assault guns (the precurser to the AK-47/74/AKM). It's a fun and interesting hobby. In fact, all of my friends and relatives are gun owners. Of my "guy" friends, all their wives also own or are trained to use firearms--military, law enforcement, corrections, and the intelligence community families by and large.

That being said, except for my friends who are law enforcement or corrections officers, none of us concealed carry on a regular basis, except my brother, who's a walking advertisement for a gun store he's 1/3rd owner of called "Defcon 1" in Coopersburg, PA.

Clearly, I'm pro-firearm. However, what I'm not, is pro-irresponsible firearms ownership and use. What does this mean?

A good self-defense course with firearms will teach you not only safe handling and storage of a firearm (and cleaning without shooting your foot off...empty that chamber and check your barrel, please!), but also how to be comfortable around them. "Comfortable" does NOT imply "complacent" or lazy. Treat all firearms, even unloaded, as though they're a lawnmower and you're a bare foot about two inches from the spinning lawnmower blade and you've got the correct mindset.

However, being comfortable around firearms also implies that, when you're "comfortable", your mind won't do the ol' heave-ho when someone presents a live weapon. Believe me: I've had people on a firing line turn with their weapon still pointed in the skyward direction. It's not a fun or thrilling situation--even if the slide is all the way back, all rounds discharged, and the magazine obviously ejected, it's still quite scary. But, if you've never been around that to know that, you may have that little "blip" on your mental throttle that gives you that tunnel-vision adrenaline dump when a clearer head is needed.

Furthermore, while some people learn handgun disarms in class, they miss the pleasure (snort, guffaw) that comes from training with an actual gun (with a polymer blue mag inserted, available from Shomer-Tec online). A ridge-covered, weighty, very painful-if-kicked, gun is a different experience. Rapping down on someone's kneecap with a loaded steel weapon, jamming the barrel into soft tissue or cracking down full-force against the jaw, neck, temple, wrist, or collarbone can be a religion-inducing experience. Actual firearms aren't like the wooden or polymer/plastic/"blue" guns people train with in classes--real guns, especially like those in the hands of inexperienced owners (like your typical gangbanger) discharge on a whim.

What this means is, taking a course that actually discharges firearms will get you used to the heft and "feel" of the weapons that can be used against you. They might also help you identify when someone is concealed carrying (and not necessarily with a permit)--kind of like Eddie Murphy in "Beverly Hills Cop" when he notes "Isn't it kind of hot to be wearing long coats in summer?" and helps bring down the holdup of the strip club. No one else noticed it--yes, it's a silly example from Hollywood, but how many of us, when we're tussling with someone, run our hands along belt lines feeling for weapons? Or against the chest in the case of "shoulder" holsters?

What firearms training can also do is teach you what to do when the gun inevitably discharges a round. I can't begin to tell you how many first time shooters--men and women, and yes, me included--flinch and almost fall over backwards when they're, for the first time in their lives, a few feet from a weapon that's fired. BANG! or in the case of heavier caliber weapons, BOOM! Eyes squint, ears ring (we do that to teach 'em to wear hearing protection...believe me, I've felt like I've been at a Deep Purple concert more than a few times...), muscles tense, and your brain temporarily says, "Holy Jesus!"

That is, unless you're actually used to the sound of a gun blazing away next to you, if you try to disarm someone, and their gun goes off, your body may not be innured to such a racket, and you might--no matter how much willpower or determination you may have not to do so--temporarily freeze up, if only for the briefest moment. The other person, used to shooting at bottles, rival gang members, or deer, may not.

Learning how to use a firearm also has additional benefits. Let's say you've disarmed your villain, but she (maybe she's in a female gang), doesn't stand around and duke it out with you. Nope. Why would that person? What are they going to do? Dive for their gun, is what their going to do. And if you happen to be holding on to their gun, wondering what the heck to do with it, that's another brief moment you lose to inactivity. Again, it's "might". Nothing is 100%.

That being said, I'd generally agree that carrying a firearm isn't a viable means of close-in self-defense, unless you've learned to use your other weapons (shoulders, knees, forearms, shins, chin, hips, forehead, etc.) to defend while you draw, and then you're also prepared to use the weapon as a bludgeon--which may render your weapon inoperable, in any event. Furthermore, the vagaries of moving targets, innocent bystanders (they're always "innocent", aren't they?), your mental condition (sleepy, irritated, upset, drunk, etc.) can make too many "what if's" in a concealed carry situation, so it's best to avoid concealed carry unless you're proficient.

I'd def. take Matt's advice--take BJJ classes, get comfortable on the ground, but realize, again, your environment. You mention gangs/groups/packs of ruffians. If you go to ground with one, and mess him up, the others aren't going to just passively stand around and watch you take out their buddy. They're going to stomp you, kick you, whip you with bookbags, throw lose bricks, bottles, and burning cigarettes on you, and generally mess you up beyond all human recognition--a Pyrrhic victory at best.

As I've come to learn, the techniques you see BJJ practitioners do on the ground can be adapted, and are highly capable of working, standing up. You may also learn to use the person you're locking up/at close grips with as a battering ram, a shield, and an obstacle, and you learn to use walls, furniture, park benches, support towers, chairs inside clubs, and pool tables, etc. as static weaponry, cover and concealment.

Melanie makes a good case for the "flinch" reaction. A cool way to work with this is, well, study your current training, and have someone just go "BOO!" in your face at random moments--no attack, just a quick scream. Watch and wonder as your body tenses up and flinches, especially if the "Boo" doesn't come every single time. Then be amazed as you flinch as the person stares you down and seems ready to scream, then relaxes....and shrieks bloody murder in your face. For some added realism, have your mate swish some stale beer in their mouth while they do it. Add the "yuck" of cigarette smoke to the equation, and you get a heady perfume that can evoke all sorts of unusual reactions from your psyche. You'd be surprised how different smells can evince different body reactions. Seriously. Like smelling cocoa butter reminds people around here of suntan lotion and the Jersey shore, stale beer reminds me of innumerable run ins with thugs, ruffians--AND drunken friends who want to drive home.

That brings me to a BIG point: Pete's point about NOT hurting someone is REALLY on target, and a good thing to look for in any class. I've actually had to use my taijutsu to disarm my best friend...of his car keys! No matter how hard he insisted it was possible, I knew he can't drive better when he's drunk. My friend wanted to drive his Jeep Wrangler home to Philadelphia (42 miles away) after getting mad at some girl at the party we were at. I had to take those keys from him--he was stone drunk, angry, and really violently thrashing about after the talking to/convincing part didn't work. The entire scene escalated EXACTLY as Matt describes escalation, from me being, like, "Dude, come on back inside" to him getting VERY ornery and "Get the bleep off me!" I felt I was actually saving his life--so there's an example of using MA to "not" hurt someone.

And the idea of taking a SD course to find out what "not" to do is sound reasoning. It's why military history students study famous military debacles and disasters with as much interest as they do victories.

--Snake

 

In our womens SD course, we have mixed classes. Primarily the "attacker" is our friendly volunteer in a redman suit also. The men come often times to see what the women are learning (wives, GF's, etc....)