Dear All, Let look at the origin of the word and how it came to be...and learn if the difference is tomato / tomahto or simply incorrect pronunciation! Originally, implemented by Jiguro Kano, Sensei for the art of Judo (Gentle Way). The "Gi" (uniform) was called the judo-gi (uniform of the art of Judo). Later the Judo-gi would gain favor with most Japanese arts and thus became known in Japan as the Do-gi (uniform of the way). This same practice came to popularity in Korea, and was adapted accordingly. However, in place of the word "Gi" you had the traditional Korean garb, Han-Bok (한복 - uniform of the Han people). Korean word for garment / uniform "Bok (복) of the way....Do-Bok! Being that hangul (unlike English) has differentiating structure between vowel sounds, would this not prevent simple pronunciation variances as would be seen with the old adage "To-may-to / To-mah-to? How do you say "uniform" in your dojang or is it do-jay-ng, lol? TAE-KWON! Spooks
To be honest, I'm always sickened when people say "that how we pronounce it here" (when here is America, "Up North" in England, mainland Europe, other clubs, whatever). Korean is Korean (as much as there are regional dialects). You can butcher our shared language (English), but at least try to learn how to pronounce Korean syllables rather than read out the romanised word in your native pronunciation. Do-bok, do-jang.
Agreed... Dear Map, Thanks for tuning in to another public educationally stimulating broadcast! Andyjeffries, I think there is a large quantity missing in the average dojang. Knowledge that is not being properly conveyed, or that is simply not present. As Taekwondo-in, I believe our unity and growing depth of international brotherhood will come from these information exchanges. If we teach / practice the Korean art of Taekwondo then it is imperative that we use it as our platform for understanding and development of community and humanity. Accordingly, if we teach a Korean art, and hang the Republic of Korea flag, it is only proper that we reference it's history, standards, and language according to proper practice. Without westernizing, Americanizing, Europeanizing, etc. Far to many people say that are not Korean or not in Korea so it is not important to maintain the "proper Korean ....." This may be the first level of unity to work towards, and providing the information along with the proper reasoning is possibly the best way to build these bridges! Thank you for your continued input, support, and understanding. I was not familiar with you until my recent return to the forums, however it is very nice to make your acquaintance, and I certainly look forward to many future exchanges! TAE-KWON! Spooks
I wasn't sure how to take this... it sounds a bit insulting to me, but from your later paragraph I guess it's not intended that way... Absolutely, as Taekwondo is becoming more of a global martial art and sport, a lot of people are forgetting the roots and traditions. I snipped the following paragraphs as I absolutely agree so didn't want to just repeat it. Likewise mate! I'm new to these forums, but I'm really enjoying the debate/discussion so far... Cheers, Andy
I should point out that it's those from down south that can't pronounce things properly, as shown by the, "air hair lair" test Mitch
The above is further evidence of the all too obvious karate roots! I say Do Bok & Do Jang, with the Do being pronounced like Doe, a deer, a female deer
I agree, but I don't see the need to hang a Korean flag in the DoJang, unless you are in Korea or are Korean.
Yes this is a problem with so much emphasis on TKD as a sport. Or too much attention given to the competition aspects. Dr. Capener points this out in his wonderful paper. It is IMHO a MUST READ & available for free on the web, just google it. He is a WTF man, former employee of the WTF, a Kukki TKD BB & the 1st American to earn a PhD from Korea in TKD. I think he still teaches in the colleges there. I also understand, but am not certain, that Judo suffered this very same thing, or its parent MA JuJitsu did, but I am not sure if I am right.
There was no need to edit it, just wanted to ensure I was understanding that you weren't being "snarky"
ROTFLMAO!!! I wondered what the F*** this was. Just googled this and it made me nearly p*** myself. Brilliant!!!
For me it's dobok and dojang. Could anyone tell me their pronunciation of baro? Do you say baro or paro? And tan-gun or dan-gun?
I'm no expert on the Korean language, but from what I know it's actually both. The sound is between a B and P, a forceful P. I believe the correct term is "aspirated". Kuk Sool Won, as a traditional Korean martial art displays the Korean Flag and uses korean terminology throughout to show respect and to maintain traidition with those who founded and developed our system. I don't see having a Korean flag as being as problem in an American or UK Dojang, as long as flag ettiquette rules are followed (we always had an American Flag hanging along side the Korean at every KSW dojang I've been to).
Aspirated is the opposite of the character used in this word. Baro is between a B and a P, but is not aspirated. Aspirated has a kind of puff of air with the sound. Baro (return to Junbi) is written as 바로, if it was aspirated it would be written as 파로 and romanised as Paro or P'aro. There's also another type of character where it's the double consonant which is more like a forceful letter, if you imagine the D of Dog in the phrase "Dead Dog" that is more like the Korean double consonant, e.g. in belt or 띠 (Ddee). If you want to use that in Baro (which you shouldn't as it would be wrong, but for the sake of discussion) it would be 빠로.
Do Bok or Do Bahk The Korean alphabet is said to be the most efficient alphabet in the world. As such, the hangul characters are only pronounced "one" way. The differences in pronunciation of the Korean uniform mainly come from folks who mispronounce the "english" spelling of the word Do Bok (I've even heard folks call it a "Doo Bock.") The proper Korean spelling for martial arts uniform is "도 복" Notice how this character (ㅗ) is in BOTH words? Which means that both words have the same long "O" sound in them. This character "ㅗ" is ALWAYS pronounced "OH." This character "ㅏ" is ALWAYS pronounced "AH." If the uniform was to be pronounced DOH BAHK it would look like this "도 박." I know I'm being picky here, but, shouldn't those of us studying the Korean martial arts learn how to pronounce things properly, if only out of respect for the language? To me, it would be the equivalent of a Korean person calling a school a "Skoll" and saying that it didn't matter because that's how they were taught to say it. When that person mispronounced the word in English nearly every educated American would correct it and say, "Don't you mean School?" Just my two cents
Actually this isn't strictly true (you may be aware of this, but others reading it may not be). Sounds can change depending on where the character is. For example, 한국말 means "the Korean language". If you write it down character for character it would be "han-guk-mal", but when you say it you pronounce it "han-gung-mal". I couldn't agree with you more if I tried! This is absolutely how I feel! I'm a stickler for accuracy (it doesn't mean I'm always right, but I strive to learn to be). Then again, the amount of people that pronounce Taekwondo as "Thai-kwon-do" (particularly Americans I've noticed, although it's not solely down to them) I think we may be fighting a loosing battle...
