Disable martial arts? Really?

Discussion in 'Disabled Martial Artists' started by Truth Junkie, Sep 19, 2009.

  1. Truth Junkie

    Truth Junkie Banned Banned

    I'm sorry, but I have to speak up about this. Disabled martial arts? Really? How effectively do you think a person in a wheelchair can defend themselves against an able bodied person? How effectively can a person with no arms defend themselves against a person with arms? Should we even teach people with mental handicaps martial arts? How effectively do you think a blind person can defend themselves against a person who isn't blind (please don't refer to Master Po from Kung Fu)? The only types of disabilities that people can have and still feasibly do martial arts are though people who could study with able bodied people anyways (such as the deaf). I'm not trying to be cruel, but we all have to accept our limitations. It would be a waste of time for many of the disabled to study martial arts as they would not be able to implement it for self-defense purposes. They would be much better suited doing something else.

    Please don't hate me for being honest.
  2. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Yes, really.

    Better with training than without.

    Better with training than without.


    Better with training than without. (incidentally I trained with a blind girl when I did Judo many years ago. She was excellent)

    Why? Why not learn to work around our limitations instead? As a general rule that's much better than just not bothering.

    By your reckoning a 5'0 girl shouldn't bother training because a 6'4 mugger is always going to have the advantage over her. Instead of looking at the starting point, why not look at what could feasibly be achieved with significant training and a focus on utilising strengths rather than simply giving the situation up as impossible. Disabled martial artists may take that even further, but giving up on the disabled as a lost cause is simply horrible.

    I would hazard a guess that the majority of people who train in martial arts never have to use their training in a self defence situation. That makes their training a waste of time to you?

    Says you. They might disagree.

    You aren't going to make many friends here if you make uneducated comments like this on a regular basis. I would hope that you posted this simply to learn something, but the tone I interpreted from your written word was not one that led me to believe that to be the case.

    Perhaps you should have a read through this section of the forum before you make any more posts in this area, as you are likely to do nothing but offend until you learn a little more about some of the disabled martial artists who have posted here over the years.
  3. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Being honest? Really? Ignorant more like it!

    First off you need to differentiate between martial arts and self defence second you need to get an education about both physical and mental disabilities.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  4. CosmicFish

    CosmicFish Aleprechaunist

    My thoughts:

    * Accept your limitations, yes.
    * Ideally, train to become the best you can within your own limitations.
    * Don't give up just because you have more limitations than average.

    And here's a link to a thread that I very highly recommend you watch if you think a person in a wheelchair cannot benefit from MA training:

  5. Truth Junkie

    Truth Junkie Banned Banned

    lol. I figured as much. People simply can't handle the truth and can't look at things objectively. I'm not here to make friends. You don't join forums to make friends, you join to discuss topics. You make friends out in the real world, not online.

    Aegis, you certainly are immature for an admin. Your rationalization does not follow and you present your argument in a demeaning manner that make me hesitant to want to listen to you, though I will.

    First of all, there is a large difference between an able bodied person defending themselves against another able bodied person and a disabled person defending themselves against an able bodied person. A blind person won't have all the information they need to attack effectively. A person in a wheelchair will be easily kept at a distance. A person with no arms will not be able to grapple and will have a difficult time getting up if knocked over.

    Secondly, it is NOT a waste of time for people to study martial arts if they never have to use it, because they will at least have the ability to use it when the time comes. It is waste of time for a disabled person to study martial arts since a disabled person (with the exception of a few disabilities such as deafness) won't be able to defend themselves when the time comes.

    Third, I find the argument "better with training than without" unfounded in using it to justify disabled people studying martial arts. Time is a limited commodity. Just because one is better with training then without, doesn't mean the time spent training in everything and anything is worth the while. If the time spent training doesn't yield significant results, it is a waste of time.

    Fourth, who said I was giving up on disabled people all together. Certainly, Stephen Hawking has made great contributions in his field. But, to put people who are physically disabled in the same arena as people who aren't physically disabled is like putting people who are mentally disabled in the same classroom as people who aren't mentally disabled.

    Lastly, one of reasons that disabled people might want to study martial art is that people encourage them to do so instead of being honest with them. If you want to train in martial arts and you're disabled, more power to you, but you have to be able to get in the ring with someone who is able bodied (and I'm talking full contact, not point sparring). If you're disabled, you're most likely not going to get attack by another disabled person, but a fully able bodied person.

    BTW, cosmic fish, the video you posted says "removed by user." Also, thank you for being the only one who is willing to discuss this rationally.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  6. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Just maybe the disabled person is training to show that while his body may be "broken" his spirit is not.
  7. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Yet again you demonstrate your lack of knowledge of not only martial arts and self defence but also disabilities.

    Maybe you should go and read up a bit and get some actual experience of what you are criticising. Then maybe you could engage in an informed discussion.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  8. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    I do both. I discuss topics and I make long standing friends online. I have met a fairly large number of forum members in real life and consider many of them to be good friends. First and foremost this is a community, and that is explained in our terms of service. We want this to be a friendly place to discuss matters, and effectively signing up and attacking disabled martial artists with your second or third post strikes me as a blatant disregard of the purpose of the forum.

    You seem to be complaining about demeaning arguments in the same sentence as using one.

    Like I said, i used to train with a blind judo student. She was excellent because she learned to use her senses of touch and balance to work out exactly where her opponent was and what they were doing. Someone trained in Judo can therefore defend themselves against many of the habitual acts of violence without needing to see.

    This line of training is available to anyone: you can practice grappling while blindfolded. It changes the training completely to begin with because it's very difficult for those of us with sight to stop using it.

    Likewise you can train using only one arm, or you can train using no arms, or you can train only sitting down. Even a fully able-bodied fighter might at some point find themselves unable to use one or more limbs, or may find themselves fighting blind, etc. A style developed specifically to assist certain types of disability can be very useful for people with that disability or for people who simply want to become well-rounded in their self defence abilities.

    This is an unfounded claim that I feel has no basis in reality. Training increases ability, and training which compensates for a disability can still give more of an edge in a self defence situation. Martial arts training is not designed to make you invincible, it simply improves your odds. An improvement from a 20% chance to a 50% for an able bodied person would be good. An increase from 0% to even 10% for a disabled person is also good: it gives a chance where none existed before.

    In any case, there are reasons other than self defence for learning martial arts. I knew a guy with severe leg muscle problems who loved training in iaido and tai chi. He trained for the love of it.

    Do you feel that the time you spend on the internet yields significant results? How about the time you spend relaxing? Playing sport?

    "Significant results" are a subjective matter. Someone disabled might train simply because they love to train, or they might train to improve their odds in a self defence situation. It's their choice, not something you have any say in, so why not let them decide if the results are "significant" enough for them to justify the time spent.

    In terms of martial arts, you ARE giving up on the disabled. You're effectively arguing that they shouldn't bother with martial arts at all.

    Why on earth would someone disabled have to get into the ring and fight an able-bodied opponent in a full-contact match? I don't have to do that when I train, so why would anyone else?

    There are plenty of martial arts which don't require students to fight full-contact bouts.
  9. Devil Hanzo

    Devil Hanzo Doesn't tap to heel-hooks

    While you're at it, why not stop by Tra Tellingman's gym and tell him he's foolish to think he could ever use his training in a real fight. Tell him that his disability will make him less able to protect himself than an average joe off the street who has both of his pectorals. Tell him it was stupid of him to fight in UFC and he should be sitting behind a desk at Bank of America.


    Or tell Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira that he should have joined the chess club after his debilitating childhood accident because there's no chance in hell he could EVER succeed in the martial arts world.

    Or what about Kyle Maynard who's an amputee with no arms or legs but did surprisingly well in wrestling and actually entered the cage for an MMA fight. Just how many times have you had the balls enough to participate in an MMA fight?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSHDWmhyDeA"]YouTube - Kyle Maynard MMA Fight Auburn Fight Night (April 25, 2009)[/ame]

    Or this old grandma in a wheelchair with an automatic weapon? [I love this video haha]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB7iz1HTh9U"]YouTube - Old woman shoots MP40 Machine gun[/ame]

    What about if you get mugged and the guy pepper sprays you? Or you get smashed in the arm or the leg from behind with a baseball bat and it shatters the bones, rendering the limb useless? What if you find yourself in a hostage situation where you're tied up? As mentioned above there's many situations where you'll be handicapped by your attacker before the fight even begins.

    You want to talk about how "no one else is thinking objectively" when you've made the most uneducated generalized comments out of everyone. A down-syndrome kid with a knife could destroy the most in shape and skilled martial artist in the world. I understand the basis for your opinions, but your lack of understanding on the subject is glaringly obvious.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  10. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    He's a troll.
  11. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Truth and Junkie seldom go together,
  12. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    This idiot is obviously going to be banned. (edit: post by person in question using offensive language deleted by mods) This little child shouldn't even be dignified with a post record.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  13. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member


    so how much full contact Kenjutsu have you seen of late?

    None I would think.

    So does that mean it's bullshido and only taught in Mcdojo? Really does it?

    Lmao you are clueless about pretty much everything you have commented on.

    I'm not even going to go into your ideas on special educational needs and inclusion because you have no idea so I don't see much point.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  14. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Well, no shock, Truth Junkie has been banned for being an idiot. I'll leave the thread open in case anyone else wants to discuss this issue, but he won't be replying any more.
  15. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Nice one Aegis. They guy was a clueless muppet.
  16. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    After that last post I submitted his details to a central anti troll database. With any luck it'll give him some problems if he wants to sign up anywhere else. That level of immaturity and prejudice just isn't welcome anywhere.
  17. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    These videos speak for themselves:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b9ENAsSsWQ"]YouTube - John Riccio, Overachiever[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7i6mj3wFRk"]YouTube - John Riccio talking about Living Life to its fullest[/ame]
  18. jazzysingh

    jazzysingh Valued Member

    at my club about 3 months ago - walked in 2 guys. both disabled. one is partially blinded. one i COMPLETELY blind

    they both wanted to learn, my instructor wants to teach, so they joined. since joining they have learnt EVERYTHING a 'able-bodied' person would learn at that level.

    AND they are testing in 2 weeks - its about WILL and DETERMINATION. Not if u have a disability.

    I think this thread is disrespectful slightly.
  19. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    That mma video with the amputee dude was fun to watch, I love watching people with disabilities not let it stop them doing something they love.
    Speaking of which I dont know much about it so how bad can cystic fibrosis effect you physhically? Guy with that did well in an mma fight.
  20. Ironized

    Ironized Valued Member

    2nd dan with cerebal pausey that trains at my club

    i dare you to spar him...

    he might not be able to block with both arms, but he makes up for it with speed.

    cycstic fibrossis and in MMA? sheesh, that seems a little dangerous, from mylimited knowledge, it can affect bone structure and it will affect your physical ability a great deal.

    those videos are heaps inspiring.
    ima go research him a little.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009

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