Differences in ITF

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by LewisHolder, Dec 11, 2013.

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  1. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I will actually agree with ITF Taekwondo that there are significant technical differences between kicks in various approaches to taekwondo. Differences as technically relevant as those differences between a Shotokan round kick and a muay Thai round kick.

    That said, I can also recognize the utility of both. And I agree wholeheartedly with PASmith when he says that the motivation behind the distinction is more to be devisive. To me, that reflects a political motivation. Not a pedagogical one.

    And the notion that you'd move further away from someone because they'd chosen a different political affiliation in a martial arts style is another mark of someone primarily interested in segregation. To which I say "what's the point?"
  2. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    Moving away part was not serious. Pasmith analogy of okinawan of shoots is flawed since they not only in many cases kick the same but also incorporates the same karate patterns.
  3. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Not literally, perhaps. But it's clear that you have a genuine problem with people making that choice.

    Shared ancestry is going to show up in more subtle ways than differences in kicks and sequences in a pattern. I studied taekwondo in the early 80s, and it was very, very similar to karate.
  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    It's not an analogy. It's the way the arts developed. It's reality.
    Started in Okinawa (for the most part), incompletely or poorly transferred to Japan (incomplete or poor for many reasons), stuff added while in Japan, incompletely or poorly transferred to Korea (incomplete or poor for many reasons), stuff added while in Korea.
    At each stage stuff was missed or forgotten and other stuff was added.
    Which makes for (I think) trivial differences (which can be interesting) but a whole host of common ground and information (which is where the real gold is IMHO).
    To my mind the best direction for TKD as an art to take is to acknowledge that historical process and retro-fit those various influences back into TKD into a cohesive whole.
  5. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    If you were to demonstrate that I kick the same as a shotokan practitioner, I would have no problem embracing it all as Karate kicks.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    You choose to kick however you want.
    Good kickers kick in the moment and adapt their kicks as needed. In all arts.
    I've done TKD, Thai, Savate and Shidokan karate. The differences are trivial IMHO.
    Those differences are worth exploring but they are also worth disregarding and just kicking how YOU find best.
  7. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    No, I mean they way I(ITF) performed ITF kicks.
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I started with ITF (TAGB) TKD. In that I learnt an instep turning kick (sparring mainly) and a ball of the foot Turning kick (patterns).
    When I moved to savate I put some shoes on and picked the ball of the foot turning kick.
    When I moved to Thai I took the shoes off, put on some snazzy shorts, straightened my foot and hit with the shin instead.
    When I moved to Shidokan I took off the shorts and put on a gi.

    In all the arts I see/saw a variety of kickers that kicked in a variety of ways so that the stylisitc differences overlapped.
  9. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    I very much doubt you would find a Muay Thai guy doing roundhouses like WTF. I have not trained in MT so this pure speculation from my part. But I am willing to bet on it
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    So why would you claim that ITF roundhouse and Muay Thai roundhouse are similar?
  11. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    God help you if you do both arts and mix and match your kicks
  12. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    Because they are. ITF kicks are slower than WTF but generate more power. Thats because the kick is executed differently. Muay Thai the exact same. They both do intentional trade offs. Thats why I am saying ITF and WTF are different.
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    This is absolutely tortuous............I now look like an Uruk Hai I have palmed my face so often
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    But you just said you've never done Muay Thai, so it falls outside your experience, correct?
  15. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    You dont think I can distinguish a muay thai roundhouse from one of the thousands of clips, matches and instructionals unless I actually visit a club?

    The claim that muay thai fighters would never adjust their kicking in practise to WTF kicks, that is to say they sometimes overlapp, is however speculation, but well founded since it would make very little sense.
  16. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    this thread has lost all sense. about 10 pages ago. and i even show the maximum number of posts per page.

    really? who cares about seeminly little differences between itf, wtf, and mt. a roundhouse kick is a roundhouse kick. sure, maybe you chamber your leg differently, or you spring your hips differently or whatever. it's still just a freakin' roundhouse kick.
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Its a hook kick in JKD...just to confuse things :)
  18. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Well said
  19. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    How will you do when you don't know the style?

    Here is a video of me getting a kick in the head during yesterday's class.

    You don't know my student's background or what style I teach, so what style do you think his kick is based on?

    I would argue it looks like a kick from many other arts.

    A head kick in a stand up fight. Van Zandt would be pleased. :D

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IosHnLpj-ns"]Kick - YouTube[/ame]
  20. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    The point is not where it's from but that they are far from identical between two organisations both claiming to be Taekwondo.

    Now, when it comes to kicking with the shin of the foot, my instructor says I can do it either way, but that kicking with the shin will likely break my foot if replicate the kick on the street.

    Any comments on that? The power generated by doing it with the shin is so superior that it's a no brainer for me.
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