Differences in ITF

Either the way you were taught them was lacking, or the format you tried to apply them under pressure was.

There is a reason they have been a part of pretty much every fighting system ever.

 

Well if that's the way you can claim to know about stuff I'm a quantum physicist, michelin starred chef and god damn sexual tyrannosaur.

 

Suspicions well and truly confirmed - no suprises here











That goes double for Smithy!

 

You forgot the other part. Nice selective qouting.

 

He missed nothing

It's like claiming you have met a Tyrannosaur because you have seen a sparrow

 

I tell you what ITF...you are onto something with what you say in some cases (about grappling, joint locks and their place in martial arts).
There is a kernal of something there.
But you are saying it in a very absolutist, definite and, in some cases, quite an abrasive manner.

I think even the most ardent supporters of standing joint locks would agree they are mainly support skills rather than main artillery. Especially in a real chaotic fight.
I'm not a massive fan of standing joint locks myself.
But you can't just wholesale dismiss them without putting in the work. Especially when other people have put in the work and find some utitlity there.

 

I am saying it because

a) They lack realism in application

b) People having Aikido guys joining their club, and I mean serious, dedicated Aikido students - trained for years, didn't pull off a single aikido technique on them, in all of their training together in sparring.

Until proven otherwise I will categorically reject many of these things.

 

a) You must mean they lack realism in how they are taught? Which is why they don't work.

b) They are very unlikely to be successfully applied in sparring, it is not a conducive format for them. That does not mean that they cannot work under pressure in different training formats, or that they cannot work in "real life".

Look at forceful arrests by police; there will often be joint manipulations and a takedown/trip in there somewhere.

 

And usually a couple more coppers piling in.
Nothing makes a joint lock easier to apply than a hefty mate holding down the rest of your target.

 

Yep

And look at door supervisors - nothing makes a joint manipulation work better than when the poor mug doesn't even know it's coming. Sneak up behind and use a simple structural hold to take their balance. Preferably with two or more people.

Waiting for a punch to be thrown before snatching their arm out of the air and spinning them around the place is best not relied on...

 

I feel compelled to point out that that is not that inaccurate.

 

They sure are succesful in their own Aikido sparring

 

*edit* - you know what? Can't be arsed......

 

You Big Bully

ITF(TKD): They sure are succes(s)ful in their own "ITF" sparring

 

you've seen these "serious, dedicated aikido guys"? not that it matters, it wouldn't surprise me. but i'd just be careful about categorically rejecting anything based simply on what little experience you have, or others telling you things.

sure. you can take the realism angle in pretty any "martial art". it's not just aikido, but it's also plenty of others. hell, i even know a hapkido guy that thought he could pull off a judo throw against resisting competition. or out-strike a boxer.

the great thing about training: it's all within your grasp. hard work, honesty in training and dedication will take one a long way. not just in fighting, but in lots of endeavors.

 

dude, i've totally done that.

 

Tell you what, after mits practise were I went full throttle kicking my partner holding it, we had sparring. My opponent, a 4th dan black belt, wanted to know in advance the pattern in which I was to kick/punch at him.

When I first arrived to their club, this same individual confidently informed me of his rank and how I had to wait many years to achieve 4th dan[/I].

 

This was less than 24 hours. Less than 24 hours. Why should we be impressed by your boasts of training with a 4th dan when you just said that rank doesn't matter?

 

He was the one trying to impress me during our first acquaintance. You clearly did not get the point of the story.

I would go further sayin a mere black belt (which I was referring to) and 4th dan or more ( black stribes on your shoulders) is a difference. But I was referring to simply black belt. Which is why I said colours don't matter. Didn't say anything about dan, though

 

First video is more "old School' with more Karate like - level stepping motions. Second video unduly exagerates sine wave. As was often the case if General Choi said something was good people thought more was better.

Here is perhaps more of a middle ground

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRbmNys1tKI"]Chon-Ji Tul - YouTube[/ame]