Did Bruce Lee ever lose a fight?

Its also a great way of expressing your feelings and opinion to a mass majority.

 

By showing a cheesey secret agent character beating up people who don't share Bruce Lee's beliefs? I can think of less idiotic ways.

 

I could show you a couple of them. I have personally seen a very big muscular guy hitting like a small girl because of his poor muscle coordination. Of course he started to hit harder with just little help, but as a complite noob his punches were awful.

 

LOL. It has a lot to do with all the body muscles.

It's not the debate of the century I'm saying weight is more important you saying body mechanics are more important. The way i think of it is that body mechanics have a gap you can't go beyond and if you whant to punch harder you will have to put on some weight. So Bruce Lee -for whom the initial comment was about could punch hard for his weight , but thats all i can give him. It doesn't matter what is more important let's say they contribute equally to how hard someone can punch witch is not far from truth.

Howewver in boxing the weight categories change every 2,5 or 5 kilos (or 5,5 to 11 pounds.) up to the heavyweight. That shows the importance of weight for trained people. That said you often find people in the heavyweight category who weight 220 punch equally hard with people who weight 250 but that's another issue.

Anyway the initial commend was about bruce lee so my reply was about people who already know how to punch.

I consider a noob someone who does about 4-6 months. In boxing that's enough to make people punch at 80% or more of their potential- provided he has average physical condition when he starts training. What art are you refearing to?

 

No. You carefully hedged around saying that. But what you did say was that anyone else doing that would be worthy of ridicule. And you characterized what he did do as a "dance number."

I'm pretty sure that constitutes ridicule. And that's fine. You've got every right to your opinion. And I'm not that big a Bruce Lee fan anymore anyway. But let's call a spade a spade.

Quite right. But there are a few mitigating factors I think you're ignoring.

1) Those guys are usually barely into their teens.

2) We have reliable documentation and film footage confirming that, whether he stuck with one style or another, he trained like a man possessed. We don't have that evidence when some unknown poster comes along and makes claims. Training day in and day out is a pretty decent predictor of skill, don't you think.

3) Movies aren't reality. Even competitions aren't reality. But it's pretty obvious that Lee developed some genuine skill. I don't think he was the best in the world, even then. If I'm not mistaken, Judo Gene LeBell tossed him around a bit for starters. Joe Lewis was also convinced he could have pummeled Lee. (And we have a decent amount of info on Lewis to suggest that he might be right.) Still, Lee looked sharper than plenty of people I know who have trained longer, both crosstraining and dedicating themselves to one style.

4) We could be wrong.

I think they both deserve credit. Personally, I'm endlessly impressed with Guro Dan. But there's a universe of difference between saying "Lee doesn't deserve all the credit" and saying "Lee deserved ridicule."

Huh.

So dojo-hopping ego-maniac style means simply looking like a dojo-hopping ego-maniac. Gotcha.

No argument there.

You drew no distinction here between being and looking like. If you think Lee was a dojo-hopping ego-maniac, that's fine. It's not going to crush my world view. I don't think it's an accurate characterization. That's all.


Stuart

 

I simply can't believe some people here :bang:

Saying that Bruce Lee doesn't deserve a full credit for JKD... that's just being utterly ignorant about his revolutionary ideas about martial arts and his teaching.
Maybe his movies are cheese to someone but they are of great value to me and everyone who likes him and jkd- it was his way of expressing jkd, and you can’t deny that. So be careful when saying stuff like that.
He made a revolution in those kung fu movies because no one before him is such films dared to use plain human strength and knowledge of kung fu to beat bad guys. He showed that especially in enter the dragon when fighting boss with his claw hand.
Again, be careful when speaking about him, Your opinion is not everyone’s.

 

your right, ALL body muscles and mechanics, i was referring to just the muscles in the arm

 

Look up the definition of OPINION...that is what is being expressed here. No offense intended.

 

yes, I did.

Worthy of ridicule? probably. Gonna get ridiculed? certainly.

They call it "fight choreography" for a reason.

I said he was good at it and I liked watching it. IF I said "he dances like a gay Brit" that would be ridicule.

I fuly agree with all of that, wasn't ignoring it, just didn't bother to point out the obvious.

I was only asking how much credit he deserved. Theorizing that he had an idea and some fame to spread it but maybe it was people like D.I. who made JKD what it is today?

Yeah sorry I got a little sloppy there. I'm not saying he was a dojo-hopping ego-maniac (althought he did "dojo hop" and he had a huge ego), I am just saying that we see that pattern on here all the time and those people are regularly driven from MAP

I love his movies but there is not much evidence he could really fight in a self-def mode. However I am 100% sure he would beat my a$$ down LOL.

 

That's not a trend I'm crazy about myself. Even (especially?) when I participate.

Yeah, they do. But be honest. You didn't call it choreography. You called it a "duet." You can't honestly tell me you chose that word not thinking it was a slight.

Yes. Yes it would. On several groups at once in fact.

If it were obvious, I don't see why you'd make the comparison in the first place. Bruce Lee and a 13-year-old kid who claims to have successfully synthesized four different styles are obviously two different beasts. But you characterized them as being the same, suggesting that the only difference is that Lee knew Ed Parker.

I wholeheartedly believe that Guro Dan is largely responsible for JKD. No argument from me there.

If this is the heart of your point, and the other stuff was just poetic license, then I couldn't agree with you more. I think that's a problem. I've been guilty of laying into people myself. And I'm not proud of it.

There does need to be a more constructive way to go about that.


Stuart

 

WOW! This thread sure turned into a rant-fest quickly. It's unfortunate when controversial people come up controverial debates (arguments sometimes) soon follow.

As for Bruce Lee ever losing a fight...Who can say for certain. He had so many fights in his younger days before going to America. Next to none of these were documented well and as we all know just because a little boy says he won doesn't mean it is so. I don't see this ever getting a valid answer. So I will end on this; Bruce Lee did more for modernising martial arts and MMA then anyone else EVER has. That I can be sure of. Regardless of win-loss record, he was a great man who did great things for what we are all here to talk about, Martial Arts.

 

talking to my instructors bruce's main fights were in challange matches in hong kong,but when in america he had ony couple,most were just playing,testing each others level,like an introduction

 

Yeah Tel he had some throw downs in HK due to some old grandmasters not liking his idea of wanting to teach Westerners about their secret ways . Good on him I say. He stood up for what he believed in.

 

He Lost To Gerit Baddenhorst, Fool

Razwell

 

Raz, whoes Gerit whoorwhatever?

 

a power lifter............ :-\

 

The guy who posted that comment has since been safely tucked up under his bridge again, don't worry.

 

He wasn't fighting in those movies. I could do cresent kick after axe kick after suplex and powerbomb with a compliant partner, and I still wouldn't be a good fighter.

PL

 

Actually his name is Gerrit Badenhorst, fool. If you plan to insult people at least finish school first, particularly English class.

 

i was replying to yoda about the tape of bruce lee's losing. back up a bit a few posts dude.

we seem to be on the same side