Di Mak

I wanna be on the cover of a glossy mag kickin' Russell's ass !!!!

No truthfully, I've always wanted to be champion of the underdog....

......or was that Champion the Wonderdog!

Louie

 

Champion was the Wonder Horse.

I think the sentient dog was called Rex!

Correction, it was Rebel!

 

"Later during the seminar, Master Oyata told me that the techniques he used in the demonstration were guarded closely and not taught to just anyone. He said he would not teach Americans because, "Americans too crazy, they'd go around knocking each other out." I laughed, but I knew he was right. "

Tiaka Oyata was right , he showed DILLMAN and he has been KO people ever since

 

Dim-mak

RE: "but in my humble opinion i dont think any one of these could use these techniques unless their opponant was tied 2 a tree."

From what you say you have seen of pressure point application (Dillman/Moneymaker), I dont blame you for your assumption. However the last time I used the points in a real encounter I didnt have the luxury of roping my opponents to a tree before hand! So your entitled to your opinion, but it is by my experience... inaccurate.

Like any other technique in the MA pressure points must be done out of reaction, and be dynamic and flowing. Its like knowing X amount of ways to block a punch or throw a person, when the time comes you dont think about which of the dozen(s) of techniques you want to use, you dont have time, you simply react with whatever you can. Its the same for pressure points. Training it properly can only make your strikes more efficient and potent, if trying to get to a point degrades your fighting ability you are not training correctly, dont have a decent teacher for that aspect of fighting, or are simply not ready for them yet....


Gary

 

Dillman and Moneymaker have to very differant views on how to apply these concepts in combat. I train under Moneymakers guidence. I have never seen him promote instant knockouts, no touch knockouts like Dillman focuses on. There is alot of discussion about BODY ALARM REACTION and how this effects the application of KYUSHO/TUITE in a fight.

 

Kempocos,

I do respect Moneymaker for not promoting the no-touch KO B.S. like dillman does, however their methods of application (nevermind theory) when it comes down to it still look similiar, it is very "karate" like, in that it lacks fluidity to put it nicely.

But if I was forced to pick a style in that genre- Moneymaker would of course be a good choice. He seems to be a pretty honest and straightforward man, I spoke with him on the phone a few years ago after he sent me a complimentary tape for review. It has been a few years since ive looked at his tape, perhaps even a Grandmaster has changed a few things? I do remember that his pressure point knowledge was excellent though.

regards,
Gary

 

I think that you will find that things have come along why in regrads to flow. There is a new book out, it is about the info in the BUBISHI , Earle Montique wrote part of the foward. and a DVD on on what we call the palyers to the game.Things like stance , breath, intent, flow In fact rick has started a forum on this subject you may enjoy the discussons and your input would be a great addition to the knowledge.
WWW.DRAGONSOCIETY.COM

 

Sounds good kempocos! Ill take a look at the forum and see where and if I can contribute and get discussions going. Ill also see if there are any recent clips so that I can publicly alter my "flow" comments if they are no longer as valid. If I cant find any clips do you have one you could post or send me privately?

thanks!

Gary

PS: Just looked for a clip on the new dvd, the link at the bottom of the product page doesnt work

 

Pressure Points

Professor Lance from Montague article:

Exactly and where did they get it? Interesting fact martial arts books pre 1940 have these types of techniques in them such as "Police Jiu-Jitsu" by Louis Shamer, 1937. There are several other books of this type with "Commando" type techniques pre WW2 and then nothing else actually showing them in martial arts magazines, books and articles until Okinawan Master Seiyu Oyata began demonstrating the techniques in the US including to George Dillman who popularized the method. Believe me I have looked. So the advent of pressure points has come out only recently. Perhaps other masters and styles knew them but they were not teaching them openly before Oyata. I have been in MA since 1980 and no one thought pressur epoints even existed before these guys started dropping people at seminars.

It is true that strikes to the carotid sinus will cause a quick knockout and it should be done with force like a knife edge strike to the neck or in Kung Fu a chicken wing wrist strike to the carotid sinus works perfectly (it doesnt even have to be set up on the arm the arm strike is to open the gateway to the neck though it does add to the effect. The neck strike is a baro-receptor response e.g causes the blood pressure to drop quickly and causes loss of consciousness.

My first Dillman seminar in 1989 I basically thought it was going to be bull**** but I found out different, it works.

My second seminar a few months later I was knocked out by a double move (which can be unleashed in an eye blink from a relaxed stance from 2 different angles it is a move form Nai-hanchi kata that looks like an "up and down block" -which such a block is meaningless -but as a strike to the carotid sinus on one side going up and down on the opposite side of the head criss-crosses hemi-spheres of the brain causing a sudden and devastating knockout. I saw a white light and thats all I remember. The knockout was performed by one of his then Senior Students Rick Clark not George. In fact I went to the ground twice from this blow and was revived.

It definately works and I learned it the hard way perhaps but I feel I could knockout out anyone who stood up close to me in an eye blink with this move, and because the hands come at you from two different angles it is virtually impossible to anticipate. This is a move right out of a karate kata that is about 300 years old and can be practiced easily thru doing the form if one visualizes where you are striking.

It seems some people doubt whether the techniques can actually be performed in combat. Answer: Yes they can. Some of the pressure points only cause minor adjustments for angle and direction to places one already wants to hit.

Example: SI-18 (small instestine 18 on a acupuncture chart) it is under the cheek bone and should be hit with upward energy. Karate-ka try to use a one knuckle strike to hit this point (which I dont like, its un-natural) and prefer the wing chun vertical fist hitting with the bottom 2 knuckles. This point hits right into the facial nerve (seventh cranial nerve) [note: cranial nerves pass thru the body to the brain without first going thru the spine and cause instant shock to the brain- these are the best points to hit] and the infra-orbital nerve.

You can test the point by sticking a thumb under your cheekbone and pushing hard upward at a 45% angle or better yet make a fist and hit into the point with your pinky knuckle as a test. When hit hard (not pushed) it produces an instant knockout. With the explosive force of the 1-3 inch punch it would be truly devastating. It can be practiced by striking a makiwara or even a heavy bag or focus mitt. Or if you are a Karate practioner some kata like Nai-hanchi have this strike in them if you understand the meaning and the target you are aiming for.

Instead of just "punch to the face" you can train to hit right into this point and it works well for a wing chun/jkd punch if you like a vertical fist and it needs to be done at closing/ trapping/clinching range.

There are a number of good pressure points like this.

My biggest complaint on the pressure point people is they dont (or at least most) dont do any kind of "alive" training. I love the pressure point work but I "absorb what is useful" out of it and cross train.

Do I still do kata? I do like 2 kata's. People who say I know 20-30 bla bla kata's dont impress me because they probably dont know 3 real interpretations to these moves. In fact 1 authentic kata (read old pre 1900 or much older) is all anyone would ever need if they understood the applications. I like kata for visualizing certain pressure point strikes and practicing the mechanics of it. I like "alive" training for combat simulation. I like JKD because it's fast and suits my temperment.

Monte Cox
Sandan Chinese Kenpo
Nidan Nihon Ryu Ju-jitsu
Shodan Okinawan Ryu Kyu Kempo
JKD Concepts practioner (though I hate labels)

 

Nice post, Montrose. Thank you for sharing, and welcome to MAP.

 

question for Kempocos

Kempocos,

Isn't Moneymaker an ex Dillman student? If so, how come you go on about Dillman so much in a negative way? Why even mention Dillman?

just curious,
Noodle

 

Yes and EX is the main reason I train under him. Rick did much of the research for DILLMAN yet they do not agree on how to apply it. Rick will not SELL you instant ko self defenses, No touch knock outs, kiai knock outs, try to claim that he created Kyusho , Tuite.
Rick will tell you that Pressure Points should be 5 no more than 10 % of your training. That in the heat of combat either a fight or being attacked the tippy tap, rub touch is not going to work. Yes if the person is standing there aware of what will happen and what to do they get KO'd. I commend anyone who does not stay with ideas they do not agree with. i will offer my self to anyone who wants to prove NT

 

Part two .... I will offer myself to anyone who would like to prove No Touch Knockouts or Kiai knockouts. I have had folks try it on me but I was told that since I train I must have defenses up or it would work. Rick and the DRAGON SOCIETY teach combat applications with a realistic appraoch. I mention DiLLMAN OUT OF MY OPINION of what I know of his direction.

 

I too would like to volunteer to be the victim of a no-touch knockout. Or a kiai knockout, whichever. I await unconciousness with baited breath. Perhaps someone could do a distal knockout? Like they do distal healing in Reiki? Maybe, for no apparent reason, I'll collapse in a heap on my home from work tonight.

Mike

 

thanks for info kempocos

kempocos,

thanks for the info. i am always interested in history and never really understood moneymaker's and dillman's relationship.

thanks,
noodle

 

Try this pages, they are in spanish, if you dont speak it, the graphics give you a good idea.

http://www.tai-jitsu.20m.com/Kyusho01.htm

http://www.geocities.com/fudoshinkan_vzla/puntos_vitales.htm