Di Mak

Are you saying he said...."i know..I'll hit Appendix 17....that'll put him down for sure...."???

Ever see any pressure point knock outs in the UFC?

 

I really don't know anything about Dim Mak aside from some articles by George Dillman, who by the way, in his latest one did say that his studies are progressing but he doubts the efficiency of the techniques in a real combat situation. But it is his choice of studies and he seems to be learning a lot.

I study Hapkido, which does get into pressure points. For me, I don't se it as anything mystical or whatever. Our main goal is EFFECTIVE TARGETS... which is something I think most martial arts teach. If I have to strike you, I won't just kick you in the gut. I will aim for sensitive areas, like the solar plexus, the kidney, and so on.

To react against grabs and punches, I will block/grab/strike nerve junctions and/or joints. Why? They are more sensitive, meaning more pain, and they are weaker, meaning more apt to succeed.

I would never rely 100% on a pressure point or sensitive area, mainly because you can miss and/or the opponent may not be affected by them. But, in my philosophy I want to know as much about the body so that when I do need to strike, my strike will be the most efficent. Anything I can add to my arsenal, providing I have tried it out and believe it will work, is valuable in my book.

 

Kempocos:

You're saying that the vulnerable areas of the body are vulnerable because there are pressure points there.

i'm saying the effects of pressure point pain are due to pressure points being in vulnerable areas of the body.

There are hundreds of pressure points in the body...correct? Why are the only ones any good at causing pain located in places where the body is vulnerable???

 

Ever see any pressure point knock outs in the UFC? are you saying that only things in the UFC are valid techinques.

No I ma saying he knew that hitting him in the head would more likely knock him out after the shot to the ribs than another shot to the ribs would.
my main point is that wether you call the spot a few inchs under the nipple the floating rib ( western term ) or triple yin ( TCM term) it is still a good spot to hit. When the TCM term says that the triple burn points around the ear are good targets , I would not try to poke them but an open palm slap to them would be a good spot to hit.

 

You're saying that the vulnerable areas of the body are vulnerable because there are pressure points there.

i'm saying the effects of pressure point pain are due to pressure points being in vulnerable areas of the body.

There are hundreds of pressure points in the body...correct? Why are the only ones any good at causing pain located in places where the body is vulnerable???


YES TO ALL , ACCUPUNTRE use all the points , Proper use of KYUSHO/TUITE is learning which are good to cause damage/pain.
Much confusion comes when folks try to use both wesytern and TCM ternms to explain things togetehr hey bdo not make sense however explain in one or the other things are clear.

 

sorry about sloppy typing , at work need to get this in fast

 

lol...no sweat.....been there....done that!!!

PS - roll on the debate

 

some good reads on a how to apply some TCM concepts to fighting. I am also a fan of BODY ALARM REACTION.

http://www.combatkyusho.com/cka_articles.htm

I feel we agree on more things than it seems. But I love a good livlely discussion. So let me know what you think of the articies.

 

A presure point is a place on the body, when contacted, delivers a reaction. Every nerve is a pressure point. The most useful pressure points are the large, easy to hit ones. The eyes, side of jaw, between the eyes, between the nose and upper lip, bridge of nose, temple, solar plexus, below nipple, above nipple, above naval, below naval, groin, back of elbow, above elbow, inside armpit, etc. Nothing the size of a half a dime is too useful, unless the area around it hurts too. If I try to hit your nasum (between eyes) and miss, I still clock you in the nose. The points should be simple and easy to apply or they are next to useless.

 

MAX oyu are targeting some PP clusters, each contains many from more than one of the 12 main meridians. Once you apply more of the TCM you will learn which would be the best follow up shot and why.some will make others more sensitive, wiether it is the TCM concepts or that they are connected due to the WESTERN view of the nervous system will always be up for debate depending on the way you view such things.

I had a Sensei who would say "I may not know acupuncture, but I know pain and damn this hurts, and add this and it hurts more. Pain clears the fog of bad technique."

 

Blimey!,
This one has just exploded hasn't it?

And guess what? After all this talk about Pressure Points and Dim Mak, one of the items that came thru this week for review on my Website (From Paladin Press):

The Encyclopedia of Dim Mak by Erle Montaigue and Wally Simpson!!!

Talk about Prescient! LOL.

 

Ooooooh, I love Paladin Press. And yes, follow ups can hurt more if done after certain moves, my point was that if the bigger the target area, the better. But the bigger, the less sensitive, so target an area that balances size/better chance of hit and amount/length of pain. The targets I said are effective since you can reach them easily, they cause tremendouse pain, and if you miss you still land a solid hit. Just like punching, with pressure points not all people fall down from the same stuff, so try to generalize and move quick.

 

MAX , I agree , that is why I say the folks that talk about , tap rub, press specific points are not learning to fight effectively. If you want a point do not tap it slam a forearm into you will get the point and several more while you are at it.

 

Acutally, along those lines it just occured to me that my school (and I'll try to do this without actually seeming like I'm advertising) is going to be hosting three connected Ba Gua seminars by one of Erle's students here in the state. As part of that he'll be teaching three of Erle's Dim Mak Katas so I'll be able to talk more accurately about things soon (provided that you consider Erle's teaching accurate).

- Matt

 

Am Mincing my way through the Erle Montague Dim Mak Encyclopedia (Paladin Press), which regardless of yr opinion of the efficiency of the subject matter, is a very good book.

It's very interesting, very detailed, not only in application, but in angles, combinations, strike placements, antidotes to strikes, maximum damage you can expect etc.

Whether Erle Montague can pull this stuff off with the stated results under intense duress, I don't know, but the book is fascinating.

Although it'll take me quite a while before I will have read it and reviewed the thing for my website. There's just so much in it.

Most interesting, in a Doctor evil sort of way. Bwahahahaha.

 

Hello,
Just found the forum here and saw a thread I could help provide some insight on.

Dim-mak can be usefull in a real fighting situation if trained properly. Generally speaking one must know how to fight before dim-mak is taught, and is sort of the iceing on the cake. Any time- specific points should not be used. I also prefer to teach point strikes that also have western explainations for the damage aside from the Eastern TCM (traditional chinese medicine) views.
If anyone has any questions they can post them here, or email me privately. Or if anyone is in the OKlahoma city area and would like to meet and train or drink some beers let me know! My website is www.pressurepointfighting.com it provides more info relating to dim-mak, (some charts, articles....) and more info on myself and what I teach and practice.

Good to be here, I hope to have some productive discussions.

regards,

Gary Romel

 

Welcome Gary and thanks for joining the righteous side in this discussion hehe.

Will check out your site presently

Sokklab, the book sounds cool. I'm a sucker for books... Has Erle moved to the UK yet? I heard he intended to be in Wales by November...

Not adding much to the debate but how much can you do after 6 pages of it?

Rgds,
David

 

Yes David
The book is most interesting, an incredible amount of information in it.

Like I say, I don't know whether that information is accurate or 'Real', but even just as a work in itself, it's excellent.

I'll carry on wading through it. I also received Shaolin Chin Na (Ming) plus loads of other stuff that has been cropping up in conversations on these forums.

Talk about of the Moment...

 

Can you say "synchronicity"?

I just got my YJ-M chin na book back after lending it out for a while. It is a very good book of general interest. Anyway, this thread ain't book club!

Rgds,
David

 

I looked at Pressure Point Fighting, Gary's site and there's some stuff of interest.

I'll refer back to it again when I have more time to waste, er I mean, use, at work.

The main issues in this thread are:

Define, what is the Difference between Pressure Points and Dim Mak?

Define What is a Pressure Point?

Do Pressure Points Exist? What Physical Evidence is there to Prove this?

Do pressure points work? (Reference here to use in training and not serious self-protection, that's later).

Can Pressure Points work in a Grappling or Striking Scenario?

Do Pressure Points work better in a Grappling-Orientated Scenario or a Striking Orientated Scenario? Is the answer based upon personal preference or experience? Define Experience.

If pressure points Work. Are Pressure Points the best solution regarding Applicability within a Given situation? (Define Situation and Conditions).

Can these techniques work under Intense Duress against a Serious Threat? (Define Serious Threat).

Add Ons:

Is Dim Mak a Marketing Myth or is it real?

One for Stump. Why haven't we seen any Pressure Point Knockouts in the UFC? Is it because there are only certain people who can really make this work under Combat Conditions or because these Masters refuse to partake in 'Sport'?