Di Mak

Thanks for demistifying this Nzric. That's wat I was trying to write and did a poor job at stating.

Rubymoon, that's an interesting case. Acutally, it occured to me after writing that I did have one case that I witnessed of a "light touch" putting someone out. My Kali Instructor, Guru Doug Marcaida, was demoing some Dumog and he put one of his stundets in a light headlock and was beginning to take him to the ground as part of a neck break. Suddenly (within a second or so of being put in the lock) the student passed out and "fell" through the technique. Luckly Guru Doug was well balanced and was able to stop the technique and bring this guy to the ground. The way the student went limp I think half the class thought that the teacher had accidenly broken his neck. Thankfully the student came to seconds after hitting the ground.

Any way, the student wasn't in the choke long enough to have gone out because of lack of blood. Guru Doug speculated that he might have rubbed a couple nerves in the neck correctly to accidently put the student out. Either way, while accidental, it seemed a lot like the vulcan neck pinch you described.

- Matt

 

If you get it right it takes about two or three seconds to put someone out through lack of blood to the brain.

 

I personally would say it takes a litle longer than that...but it depends very much on the person...and the diference is so little it barelt matters....choke them till you have to support their weight

 

Yeah, I'm aware of how quickly a blood choke can set in. This one wasn't a blood choke. He was out almost as soon as the head lock was on. And the lock was not on tight. I stll don't have a full explanation for what happened.

 

RUBY - I was priveledged to meet and personally study under Master Taika Seiyu Oyata in 1985.

I too met him around that time, OYATA was brought to the US by his students and is a true OKINAWAIN STYLIST. I went on to study under one of his senior students. DILLMAN also met him then and that is when he started HIS VERSION. To appraoch the use of these points in the manner DILLMAN shows will not work well as I see it for three reasons

1. He does not show the techniques fully

2. attacks / fights do not happen as they are presented in the seminars

3. To attack a single ppoint the size of a dime during a fight is not going to happen

These concepets are part of the BUBUSHI and SOKENS NOTES two sought after and very few KARATE documents from old masters. I still study the use of KYUSHO & TUITE and contarty to popular belief DILLMAN did nto invent these terms he just markets them very well.

here is a good articale by a person I train under some times. I would recommend his book to anyone , great info.

http://www.combatkyusho.com/articles/pinpoint.htm

Keep in mind when these fighting systems were created the only way they knew the body was by the LAWS OF TRADITIONAL CHINESE MEDICIENE so to study it will help apply the techiniques to achieve the results as they intended. Viewing the body in the same manner as the teaching of the style creators intended.

 

Dim Mak/Yuet theory is interesting.
Learning 2 points won't be nearly as interesting as learning 3 because 3 is where danger to the receiver increases dramatically. Did you know that striking 2 points in the incorrect order can nullify any harmful effect intended? As said before, dim mak is not the same as pressure points but it does overlap.

In many cases, dim mak does precisely require particular angles of attack to work. And there is a simple reason for it and that reason is also tied in with why it becomes relatively easy to use these atacks. As kempocos just stated, you have to learn the laws of, and practice, traditional Chinese medicine to get good.

Rather than gimmicks, I see them as deeply woven into the entire system I study.
Angles of attack? That's what we practice.
Finding them? We become experts in locating points. I'm not talking boxing with gloves here; this is striking, struggling, clawing, manipulating and lots of other 'ings'. Not knowing dim mak could result in your certain victory being snatched away from you and you wouldn't even know why.
Why just use gross motions when putting a lot of effort into finesse can yield startling results. Why not aspire to the highest methods? In fact, how can I be studying my art if I have no desire to use dim yuet (dim mak)? It would be pointless in every sense of the word.

How about dim mak resuscitation, mentioned by Heather above... Useful to know how to wake someone up, to calm them down or to excite them amongst other things. People get into very funny states. Then, you do often have a compliant receiver.

Rgds,
David

 

I'd REALLY like to see someone try to explain using pressure points or Dim Mak in a fight. "Well, your honor, I just grabed him in a way to stop blood flow to his brain." Judge:"So you deliberately applied a hold that could kill someone in seconds if improporly placed or held too long?" "Yes your honor, but there was only a 25% chance of him never regaining contionce." "Well, due to your extencive lethal training over use of force and attempt at murder, i sentence you to 5 yrs. in prison and a 5,000 dollar fine." "But sir, there were 3 guys and they jumped ME!" "You used more force than necesary. this case is over" *slams gavel*

 

In the way I train i it is KYUSHO/TUITE it is about how much pain can be produced. If I grab here it hurts, if I grab here twist alittle and bend a little it hurts alot more. or settiing up a strike combo to once again hurt more.

 

Just to be clear, I believe the following

NO TOUCH KNOCKOUTS -- NO
KIAI KNOCKOUTS -- NO
TAP, TOUCH RUB = DEATH -- NO

 

Kempocos....try doing that to someone who's sitting on your chest caving your face in with punches....because in all reality that's what you're going to have to risk to get to all these grabbing and twisting places

Again it goes back to the practicality of it all....and this stuff ain;t really practical

 

It is the reason armbars , ankle locks work. B

 

Really? I thought the reason armbars worked was because you were hyperextending the connective tissue of the elbow....

and the reason ankle locks worked was that you are again damaging the tendon in the heel...

Very little to do with pressure points and Dim Mak in my opinion

 

In a training environment what your doing is alot like Pro wrestling, you "sell" the other guy's moves. In training you never really try your hardest to prevent a move, if you did there would me no rules and people would get hurt. I wouldn't say it's imposible to KO someone by touching them, just impractical and risky. Unless you can slow time like the matrix, you should avoid using more advanced presure points. Even if you can pull off a pp, you can't calculate how hard you'll hit a moving target. If you hit too hard, you could kill him. Bye bye free world, hello prison.

 

sorry, because some do not ubderstand why thier grappling techniques cause submission is nothing but lac of knowledge. I say you are right but getting on my chest is not a very easy thing to do. OKINAWAIN TE was all about grappling, wreastleing. TUITE means grab hand , submission holds. A narrow mind does not make it in correct. BJJ is full of grabbing and twisting of limbs , seems to work pretty well. Boxers the old one two the ribcage / floating rib is the LIVER /SPLEEN CROSSING and sets up hook punch to the jaw STOMACH 5, 6 that works all the time . It is mapping out the weak parts of the body that are weak the same way the OLD MASTERS did according to TRADITIONAL CHINESE MEDICENE.

 

THE ONLY DIFFERANCE IS ,

WESTERN MEDICAL TERMS OR TRADITIONAL CHINESE MEDICAL TERMS.


Yoda: Typo corrected:- find the EDIT button!

 

The old chestnut comes back -

Kempocos....watch the early UFCs...watch the guys who were "damned if anyone was taking them to the floor"

And then watch them tap out

 

So why can you still get the knockout if you don;t exactly hit Stomach 5?

How about all the rabbit shots to the head on the early UFCs where the guy was being thumped in the back of the head but failed to see Blue Lightning?

Are you saying that boxers will only get the knock outs if they hit the presure point spots accurately?

When a Thai boxer has you in a clinch and is delivering knees to your stomack...which pressure points is he hitting?

 

READ ALL MY POSTS , I state trying to be pinpoint is not going to work, just not possable. but to target an are that is worth hitting is useful. Once again it is about terminology WESTERN MEDICINE vs TRADITIONAL CHINESE. the locations on the body does not change. If you try to read the body as the creator of your TMA did it helps to view it as he did. Plant a shot to the side of the jaw you will lightup stomach 4, 5, 6, some Large intestune points. I am more into targeting clusters or the correct pstion of the arm bar to mmake the elbow burn with pain as apposed to hurt.

Read the articale in the link I provided, writtten by a soldier who proved his style in combat not sport.

 

thai boxer is often slamming what TCM refers to as TRIPLE YIN CROSSING - LIVER AND SLPEEN or the FLOATING RIB AREA this knocks the wind out and breaks things as well as causes trauma to the organs behind them.

 

stump , question for you - this last K1 do you think remy borjesky randomly throw knees or did he target his shots.

UFC I have watch almost 45 of them and it is more about balance of weapons than anything else. striking, grappling , ground, and condition - not gassing out.