Deja Vous Panic Attacks

Discussion in 'Mental Health and Addiction' started by Simon, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Given the sad news this week that we lost Moi, our second highest poster to mental health issues, I figure it's time we open up and discuss mental health.

    Things have really improved over the last few years and thankfully the stigma attached to mental health is starting to disappear.

    More than ever we talk about our mental health openly and in regular conversation.

    I have a student and work colleague who is ex military and the day we walked across the work yard and he told me he was seeing a therapist to help with his PTSD was truly memorable.

    One because he trusted me with that information, but two because he felt that he could open up without a stigma being attached to him.

    Now to my post.

    The last year or two has been real tough for many reasons and whether that has had an impact on my mental health I don't know.

    I have started in the last 6 or so months to suffer from deja vous panic attacks.

    These can happen both during the day and night.

    They are short and can be triggered by something on TV, or a familiar sight.

    My wife works in a care home and a nurse there recommended some herbal remedies to hep restore a calm state.

    One of the remedies (I take two tablets) is a root extract and feely available.

    Now I have some good friends and a supportive family and my wife especially just keeps half an eye on me.

    I don't take the tablets every day, but maybe I should, as the attacks started again yesterday prompting me to start taking them.

    I don't think it's anything serious, just tiredness, long hours and a pressured job, but it's still mental health and not something to be ignored.

    Now you don't need to post anything here, but if you are suffering any anxiety or other mental health issues you DO need to speak to someone.

    There IS always someone you can talk to.

    My student tells me his therapist is amazing.

    Another student, is with a therapist, while another sings the praises of MIND, a mental health charity.

    The underlying message is that speaking to people does help.

    RIP Moi you old rascal.
    Anth, bassai, Mangosteen and 9 others like this.
  2. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Sorry to hear about your troubles Simon, and I wish you a speedy recovery.

    Glad your ex-mil colleague/student is getting support also; Combat Stress brought me back from the edge of a PTSD cliff two years ago.

    And may I also echo your sentiments about Moi; the dude will be sorely missed.
    Simon likes this.
  3. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Thank you. He speaks really highly in regard to his therapist, who draws stuff out of him he can't believe.

    He's fiercely proud of his service (Royal Anglian) and does lots of work for Help Our Heroes.
    axelb and Van Zandt like this.
  4. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    First off: I hope you will get better and constantly well soon, and that you can tackle any problems you encounter.

    Now, I'm free to comment on some points you made.
    Not to object and disagree, more to... maybe get some sort of conversation going about the issue as a whole.

    Note: I took the liberty to switch the sequence of the next two quotes, because I can connect my point better this way around; I didn't do it, to confuse anyone or two make my thoughts seem more fitting!
    I mostly agree with that one.

    Personally I will refrain from being honest about it more and more though; I also don't go into much details in the other forums I am member, and am not sure it was a good thing to do it here.

    That I wanted to mention before my next statement. You now will see, I think, why I switched the chronology.

    I'm sort of unsure about that, honestly.

    Yes, as I mentioned, it can be talked about easier, nowadays compared to some years ago.

    But: I also think lots of people still don't know how to handle that and therefore are only partial... I'm not sure about the next term. Not due to language problems, but because I'm not sure how to call it... Partial... "understanding"? Being okay with it? Appreciation? Grasp it?
    It's not entirely what I mean, but right now I'm not sure what to call it.
    Once I find a more fitting description I could add it, if someone is interested in it.

    I can only take personal examples, sorry about that. But I don't want speculate too much.

    1. My Sensei is awesome and despite knowing about my issues from the beginning, he was always there and worked with it.
    Certainly in ways most wouldn't agree with and also not in a professional manner (he is not, after all), but in a way that made me improve both: Privately and MA related.
    MA related he made me an awesome Uke and even does his gradings with me.
    Privately... well, that would take too long for too tiny steps, therefore I won't go into detail here, because otherwise the text will get longer and longer.
    (In case someone wants to know anyway, please. But I don't fond it that interesting anyway.

    BUT: He can also make my life living hell, when it comes to points he just can't understand.
    Because he's not... as bit weird. Or a nutcase like myself ;)
    Running crisscross over that mats, for example.
    I just can't do it.
    My Doc even told me, that I will never be able to do so.
    But Sensei can get really upset because of it.

    Now, don't get me wrong!
    I don't hold that against him, and I'm incredibly thankful for him!
    It's just something "normal" people can't grasp.

    2. My total nightmare: When people ask me what I do for a living.
    I'm not much of a liar, so either I tell the truth or change the subject or rephrase a real answer and than change.

    Because I don't work at all.
    Because: See above - nutcase.
    I won't bore anyone with more details.

    My point here is supposed to be the next: Some people I tell the truth.
    They usually go: "Oh... yeah..." and that's it.
    Afterwards it just an awkward silence.
    And the subject never comes again.

    So I feel like an idiot for admitting that (I won't do that anymore due to that) and the others feel utterly uncomfortable and at times you notice, how they wish they'd never asked.
    And this is just an awkward situation in the end.

    I also have to admit though: Even though none of the people I told about it ever talked about or asked me anything about it again, most of them treat me rather similar to how they did before.

    I keep it at just these two examples, as it's a long enough text already.

    I take some as well.
    It's 6-8 a day, not two, but they made me more relaxed and open, according to my teachers.
    Also more happy, less sad, less withdrawn, ...
    It's creepy actually.
    And makes me sort of sad.

    I'm glad though that they seem to work for you! :)

    Even more glad you have those!
    That's like a pure treasure to have :)

    I won't advice to either one.

    Out of personal experience: I need to take them every day, because otherwise I do relapse once I drop beneath a certain level.
    But I also don't have to take them for something that might or might not occur, but because it just always is like "that" otherwise.
    At times, more often than not, I wish I'd could just drop them.

    I think it really can help, indeed.
    I do think, however, that it's not that easy to actually find or have that someone.

    Pure personal level, because for most it's true: Nope.

    I feel like an idiot mentioning it, because it fits me, and might make more sense it that weren't the case, but: I don't think that's true.

    First of due to the obvious: Not everyone has people, he can attend to when things go crazy in ones mind.
    I don't have that luck.

    Yes, later I can talk to some of my teachers, if I'm lucky, but not when it is happening.
    I can hardly call them or anyone in the middle of the night, only because I suffer half a nervous breakdown over essentially nothing.

    Now, I can hear the objection (and rightfully so!): There are helplines for moments like that, you can call.
    Again - totally personal (and therefore rather useless and uninteresting), but: Nope again.
    I don't phone.

    I phone with my Mom, and I at times answer the phone, when I see who is calling and absolutely depending on the person who is calling; but aside from with my Mom, is torture.
    I hate phoning, I can hardly do it, it puts total pressure on me, ...
    Being on a total low, fighting with myself and my nerves, one of the last things I could do, would be using a phone.
    Maybe (! Big Maybe!) to call a friend to ask to come over, but more?
    But then: See above. No one to call about essentially nothing.

    I usually try to look at the logical side (which sounds wayyyyy easier, than it it actually is!): I know out of experience, that something good will happen again.
    That a while later, I will be more or less fine again.
    Does it help, when I feel like pure rubbish?
    Not really.
    I'm still a wreck, I still feel horrible, alone, hurt (for the last two examples: Depending on what is driving my crazy that moment), whatever; I also might still feel suicidal.
    BUT it (among other little things) stops me from doing something stupid; be it this or that.

    Not to get the wrong picture: I don't pity myself for it.
    It's just the way it is and mostly I get along good enough to not totally break down.
    So that's fine.
    I also don't think that makes me in any way particularly "special" or anything. I'm not.

    Just thought I'd add that to the thread.
    I really fought with myself, if I should really post that.
    In the end, I decided to do it. Obviously.
    Not for me, because I gain nothing out of it.
    I am honestly not sure, if this was a good idea at all.

    But: Maybe one person can take something out of it.
    Maybe one person finds some way for himself, to keep fighting.
    Maybe one person finds some way for himself, to help another one.
    One person, and maybe it was worth it.
    (Boy, that sound melodramatic, doesn't it? :oops:)
    aaradia, Simon, Dead_pool and 2 others like this.
  5. hewho

    hewho Valued Member

    Simon, I hope things work out for you.
    Latikos, That was open, and not melodramatic at all. It all starts one person at a time, from the ground up, with something like your post.
    A therapist helped me with self harm and solvent abuse issues, and being able to talk to someone was the best thing I could have done. Even if it's just one close friend to keep an eye on you, and help you get the help you need, or if it's just taking the step to get to your GP, please talk to someone.
    Simon and Latikos like this.
  6. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    My GP (I think anyway; GP is the abbreviation for general practitioner, as in family doctor, right?) knows most things.

    I am in assited living for roughly two years now (this means I have my own place and everything, but I also have a guardian/ advisor, who visits me twice a week to see if everything household-related works out (poor sod had to help me doing the wishes last week ;) ) or when visits to the authorities and the such are necessary) and I needed some diagnoses and sort of statements from doctors for it.

    So I went to him with a letter I wrote (because elective mutism; sometimes I can't speak to people); he read it, then looked at me and started with: "Well, it's not that I can't see it..." :oops::D
    I loved him for that actually; he was honest enough to tell me that this isn't really news to him, because it's obvious enough, but also took me serious enough not to start pitying me, but started to ease the moment.

    Therapy if off for me, since my assurance won't pay for it and it's way too expensive to pay for it myself.

    But again: I mostly function by now, just not normally.
    But at least in a way that I don't harm myself anymore and that my suicidal thoughts (when they are present; luckily that's not too often anymore) can be overcome. Plus: Being a coward, who is scared of death also helps.

    Would I profit from therapy?

    One of my teachers told me once, that everyone can see, that I have severe problems.
    But he also told me, that I got "better" in many ways during the last two years.
    A long and stony way, but a way.
  7. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    This is what it is all about.

    We talk about it and maybe that one person who is stuck in a hole finds it within themselves to get help or talk to someone.

    I agree. A brave and open post.

    Another brave and open post.

    Glad things are on the up for you.

    Thank you also for the kind words.

    Most of you won't know that last year I had to walk away from MAP, as I needed time for myself.

    I told the MOD team and all were fantastic.

    Some from the other side of the world sent me messages of support, while people like John Titchen and Mitch were close enough to visit.

    As we've seen from the thread about Moi's passing it can be quite surprising the bond that can be made on an internet forum.
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I've struggled with anxiety for decades. As it turns out (through doing therapy)...since childhood.
    I was a very anxious child and teen and got into martial arts as a way to try and "fix" it. I was sick and tired of feeling afraid all the time and wary of conflict.
    To a large degree martial arts was/is very helpful in this regard. But you have to put the work won't happen unless you put yourself forward and do things you are wary or anxious about and grow from that.
    My anxiety was kept in check and improved through my 20's and 30's (often through avoiding things that would trigger it which isn't ideal).
    Sadly however having children, family redundancy and the responsibility of later life has ramped it WAY back up again and I've had, for want of a better word, 2 "breakdowns" in the last few years.
    2 episodes where things got too much, I had too many worries, I couldn't contain it all and for a few days each time became very dysfunctional and couldn't cope.
    Made me feel like a failure and like I'd gone right back to being a scared child again.
    I've had CBT and mindfulness therapy (as well as medication) but quit honestly have only found them peripherally helpful. They helped me understand where the anxiety comes from and the thought processes but when things build up it's still a problem.
    Currently going through a very similar build up to the first 2 episodes to be honest. Maybe I'm a couple of things going wrong from dipping again? I don't know.
    Very despondent right now.
    Simon likes this.
  9. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Thank you, Smitfire.

    I wish you all the very best.
    Smitfire likes this.
  10. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    I've written about my PTSD and the crippling anxiety I experience from it on MAP, and I'm not in much of a mood to do a full recap at the moment. I'm currently in a relapse in my condition and have begun taking medication again after being off of them for four or five months, and after having worked very hard to get off of them after a year and a half of being on them. It's no big deal really, just took ten steps backwards and have to practice doing all the things I've learned all over again.

    I do however want to mention that it's pretty important to be able to convey what you're going through to other people (especially those you work with or interact with often) where mental illness is concerned. Most people have no idea what's going on with somebody who has mental issues, but if you're able to get them on the same page of how you're feeling you're able to take away the worry of what these people are thinking of you, and to a degree not feel like you're letting them down in certain situations because they know what's going on. It doesn't work in all cases, but in my experience most people are generally very receptive unless they're a selfish leech of a person you shouldn't associate with anyways.

    I can't speak to all mental illness, but I do have a pretty good explanation you can give people where anxiety/anxiety attacks, and situational anxiety (where you get anxiety during certain things specifically) are concerned. Before I write the dialogue of how I explain my own anxiety to help people understand my situation, let there be a disclaimer that while we may avoid certain situations that cause us anxiety, it is also very important in rehabilitating ourselves that we expose ourselves to the situations that cause it in order to desensitize ourselves to it. Anxiety never "comes from nowhere." There are always internal or external mechanisms that cause it, and being able to identify them and learn to work with them is instrumental in increasing your quality of life. There are well researched systems for going about learning to locate and deal with anxiety involving exposure therapy, talk therapy, medication, and mindfulness/acceptance therapy and if you suffer from any of the kinds of anxiety I've described I implore you to seek these methods out.

    All that said, sometimes you just can't do some things at a certain moment and without the other person/people understanding what's going on with you it can cause friction in relationships and other's expectations of you (which causes even more anxiety for the person suffering). My explanation to people to help them understand is as follows:

    I will ask, "Have you ever been punched or hit in the face or anywhere else on your body that really hurt? (The answer is usually yes). You didn't like it right? (obviously not). Imagine if I asked you to do something, or go somewhere, that when you did it or went there it would result in a bunch of people punching you in the face until they got bored of it and there's nothing you could do to stop it. Would you want to do that? (obviously not). That's what dealing with anxiety that has no apparent reason to be there is like. That is what it is like for me, and I have to deal with it on my own terms and not be forced into situations to deal with it."

    For me, that's helped a lot of people understand the severity of it. Moving something mental into the physical realm to give it a tangible feel seems to help those that haven't experienced it realize it's not just something "to get over" and why. If you go into a room of people that punch you in the face, it's pretty hard to tell the person that comes out of the room to simply get over their broken nose and missing teeth, and hence how it is with mental situations as well.
  11. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Thank you, Ero.

    Sorry to hear you've taken a step backwards.

    Seems though you have caught it and are doing something about it.

    I wish you well, Sir.
  12. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    This is a great topic to open up. I have never experienced such things directly, but have friends that have suffered and lost a friend at 18 due to mental health issues.

    It needs to be talked about more,I see too often these things being dismissed, but a bit at a time people talking about their issue will help support each other in the right direction.
    Simon likes this.
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I hope you get through your issues Simon. I know from other people who suffer from similar incidents, that it is about managing and having some form of support. Whether its family, friends (internet or otherwise).

    I tend to internalise a lot of my angst. My own way of sorting out my issues is "see if I could do this myself" and when I can't think of anything else, I will throw a whatsapp or a pub lunch with friends and just chat away.

    So I'm grateful to have that kind of support system.
    Mangosteen, axelb and Simon like this.
  14. CamToolin

    CamToolin New Member

    Amen. Mental health is much more serious than physical health. When your body is sick, there is always a pill to help you get better. When your mind is "sick", there are so many steps/ways/things to handle before it will get better.

    I too have a therapist and we talk online every week. It's been super helpful especially after my AD surfaced.
    Simon likes this.
  15. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Simon, I am ashamed to not have been able to help you in any way as yourself, JWT and Billy really helped me in one of the lowest points of my life (I'm unsure if you even knew it then)

    I am also lucky to have such great support from my partner.

    I had a lot of anxiety issues due to family and finances. Like being fatigued and angry and losing all social skills. I was able to get myself out of the financial difficulty but the 2+ years of anxiety that built really needed working through.

    My partner encouraged me to seek counselling and improved my mental coping skills and family relationships on my terms but the anxiety is still there.

    I am still anxious in social scenarios and even at MA classes (judo causes a lot of anxiety, but even thinking about getting thrown boosts my heart rate because I'm a huge control freak and the need for control fatigues me).

    But I really advise everyone to seek some counselling and fully open up. Just say your random thoughts.
    In the UK, if you can identify that you are having trouble in advance, you can normally get seen to and get help in a reasonable time frame.
    It's really scary initially but most my family was supportive and proud of me (the ones that weren't probably need help themselves)
    I'm much less frustrated with myself now.
    Fish Of Doom and Simon like this.
  16. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Mangosteen, I'm glad things are on the up for you.

    JWT and others were and are a big help and Mushroom is just a top notch guy.

    Replies to this thread are pleasing, as people are opening up. Hopefully those that don't want to post realise talking to someone is the way forward.

    I need to do a Scotland trip next year, maybe we can do a mini MAP Meet.
    Mangosteen likes this.
  17. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    My experience is I prefer talking to total strangers about my mental health. My family can't comprehend it. I grew up doing and seeing some stuff I outright should not have been subjected to as a child. My mother had a waaay worse childhood so she always told me mine wasn't that bad. And in truth I had loads of great experiences and my parents loved me. Still had to get through some things that no child needs to go through. I don't really want to go into detail either, but I'd do it in person.

    I've noticed recently (I've been meabingdon to talk about this) is that if my front door gets knocked/tapped and I am not expecting someone, my heart goes into my mouth. As you can expect this is every other day but it's very common.

    Someone will tap the door and I'll worry that someone is coming to harm us or the police are coming to arrest us or tell us something horrible has happened. Of course we are no longer doing anything worthy of either response but it still happens.

    My door has been kicked in so many times that this is my bodies response. My Dad laughed it off and my girlfriend didn't really understand or relate. I have literally been held against my will/kept hostage by people who I opened my door to. I am exttmerely paranoid about opening my door to anyone.
    CamToolin, Mangosteen and Simon like this.
  18. CamToolin

    CamToolin New Member

    total strangers like online? forums? mental health counselor? I have tried betterhelp. so far, so good. Jason is not annoying to talk to. in fact, he doesn't judge me and i can tell him anything. like anything - i'm so bold. he knows my secrets, and yet we haven't met.
  19. CamToolin

    CamToolin New Member

    Aww I'm sorry to hear that. must be hard on you. Hope for your speedy recovery. :)
  20. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Actually mostly this forum. Also councillors. It's just hard to tell family and friends.

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