Defense against dangerous dogs?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by EdiSco, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    A person can't outrun a dangerous dog. What would you do? Any experts here? I've been told by a vet student don't make eye contact and stand absolutely still? Seriously?

    A dangerous dog is probably more dangerous than a knife attack - at least a fit person could outrun the person wielding a knife?

    And if you think dogs are just fluffy and cute, watch this:

    There are plenty of lowlifes who have dogs as bodyguards and attackdogs these days....
    axelb likes this.
  2. Lily

    Lily Valued Member

    Don't be a jerk to animals would be the best start.
  3. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Learn first aid.
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  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    If only it were so simple!

    Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how nice you are to an animal if people have been cruel to it before. Not in a chance encounter, anyway.

    I'm no expert, but I've heard that advice from a vet before too, and it has worked for me. I've had sketchy encounters with viscous dogs 3 times. Once was walking with a group at night through Greek countryside, a pack of wild dogs confronted us on the path. Two of us raised our arms to look big and silently walked very slowly forward, and eventually they ran off looking a bit confused.

    The other times were in the English countryside, where a guy had a dozen or more dobermans kept in squalid conditions that constantly got out and would often kill sheep in the area. Twice I got stuck with them on the road blocking my way back. Once was one dog, the other time I think it was 2, maybe more further in the distance. Both times I stared just above the head of the closest one, giving the impression that I couldn't see it (I heard from a vet that dogs find this disconcerting). I didn't make any noise, and I think one time I walked very slowly away and the other time I walked very slowly toward. Every time they moved or got agitated I would freeze for a few seconds.

    It's not a recommendation, but it's worked for me.
  5. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I think this might be related to dominance. I think dominant dogs don't acknowledge lesser dogs. By looking past it you are telling the dog you aren't fussed by it and therefore you must be the dominant dog and therefore you are not to be messed with.
    One reason people that don't like dogs can attract them is because the dog lovers go up and are all excited and bouncy (like a puppy). They go towards the dog. While the non dog lover is more aloof and avoids the dog. Then the dog wonders what this strange dominant animal is and investigates. The dog goes towards them.*

    It's tricky but you can try and work out if the dog is all bluff and barking (in which case they can often be outbluffed and forced to back off) or actually aggressive (in which case they are often more silent and intent).

    When I owned dogs myself many times I would get between my dogs and an aggressive one and try to be the dominant dog over everyone. Appear large, forceful body language, strong tone of voice.
    One dark night along a canal path I had to do that to a dog guarding a canal boat. Came running up the path towards me. I could either go back (some miles) or go forward. So I went forward telling the dog to "get out of it!" until it backed itself onto the barge and I could pass. I then had to keep turning round to make it back off so I could carry on.

    Like any human attacker, if you are attacked you don't need to win but just make the dog re-think their actions and stop. This is why pitbull type dogs can be such a nightmare. Not because they are vicious per se but because they fight and perceive resistance as a fight and that makes them fight harder. Other sort of dogs will snap and snarl but they don't want any back so can be made to back down.

    If attacked by a dog I would be toe-punting the bugger in the head and ribs as hard as I could and stamping on its legs. I remember Dave Turton recalling one time how he got a dog off and kid and broke its neck with a rear naked choke type movement with his hand on its muzzle.

    *This is all cod-dog psych from watching too much Cesar Milan. :)
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  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Going forward has worked a lot better for me. The one time I went backward it took a lot longer for the dog to stop growling, probably because it thought I was scared of it (it thought right! ;) ).

    The best dog fighting story I've heard was the American boy who did BJJ and managed to RNC a pit bull that was mauling his friend.

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  7. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Funny they try and link modern Neo mastiffs with roman war dogs. Modern Neapolitan mastiffs are pretty much crippled with exaggeration. Can't see, can't run, can't breath.
    The Neo mastiffs of 60/70 years ago look nothing like modern Neo's let alone one from roman times.
  8. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I've only met two or three dogs that I didn't immediately get to pet. One was a psycho dog that would just run and try and bite me. The lady was always careful to walk it super early in the morning so that nobody was always round but unfortunately I was on an early shift (like half 5 in the morning). There was a few close calls that almost had me booting the dog in the face.

    The other ones I met were rescues and I had fair warning that they might not take to me. Almost got nipped by one but like I said, I was forewarned.

    The only other dangerous dogs that will attack really are police and guard dogs. In which case you shouldn't be doing whatever you're doing! Haha
    Lily likes this.
  9. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    I'm sorry, but were you drunk when you read my post? I specifically said DANGEROUS DOGS. How could you deduce that I was worried about dog attacks as I'm a "jerk" to dogs? I have a friend who has a pug who I often play fetch with.

    There are reports of dog attacks often. About a month ago I was just walking minding my own business and a staffie type bull terrier just growled and barked at me for no reason from other side of footpath. It looked aggressive. the owner looked like either drunk or on drugs. I just ignored and avoided the two by swerving around them. It was on a leash and trying to pull owner towards me. Just thought what if he wasn't on a leash? What would I do? The laws on pet keeping in this country are a joke! Should have a permission and an annual assessment of living conditions for the pet like dogs and cats.

    I believe you owe me an apology? Karma would be you got bit in the bum by an illegal pitbull terrier kept by a lowlife!
  10. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    This is what I'm afraid of. People are breeding dogs for dog fights. This is not back in the 80s. This is happening now! Suppose one of these dogs escaped and ran into you.......

  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, with a truly crazy dog the best you can hope for is that there's a tall wall or fence nearby you can climb over.
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I know more about dog fighting than is healthy really. What are the real problem are the dogs that are the fallout of the requirement for people who want "hard" dogs but then have no clue (or care) how to own them responsibly.
    Dogs that are actually used for dog fighting you'll rarely see (their scars will generally be obvious and so they are isolated) and often aren't human aggressive at all (as dog fighting involves a lot of human contact).
  13. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah, real fighting dogs are alright with humans but they can't see another dog without wanting to kill it.
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  14. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I flip flop between thinking I'd be ok fighting a dog off if I had to, and thinking I'd get pretty messed up by a determined dog of the right breed (especially after watching video of a police dog shredding a guys arm in about 3 seconds).

    This indicates to me that I have no idea how I'd actually fare. Probably pretty badly. (And yet later my brain is still going to tell me I'd probably be ok... after all I'm a ~280lb strong guy who practices kicking things...)

    I have never encountered a dog that was aggressive towards me.

    Against a dog that hasn't bitten & held on to me (like pit-bulls do), I'd probably mostly try to kick it in the head & ribs. I hadn't thought of stomping its legs, but that is also a reasonable plan I think.
    Against a dog that has chomped down an won't let go, I'm not sure what the best strategy would be. Choke or eye gouge maybe? Knees to the ribs & head, pulling it into the knees by pulling with whatever part of me the dog is latched onto?
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    A dog that's latched on needs immobilising (so it can't shake and rag and cause damage), then push the nose into what it's on and twist the collar. When it let's go to breath pull it away.
    That's one reason I would make it illegal to walk a dog with no collar in public. With a dog the collar and tail are about the best handles to use (which is why, some people think, some guard breeds are docked).
    Not easy at all and usually takes two people to do it. Wedging something into their jaws can help (they use wedge shaped sticks called breaking sticks in dog fights to seperate the dogs when needed).
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  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    If a dog has hold of something or someone else and you want it off wedge its body between your knees (even better if you can get its back legs off the floor) and do the collar twist thing.
    Then try and throw it over a fence.

    If a dog is approaching and it's aggressive (head and ears down, staring at you, stalking forward or running straight at you growling) climb on top of a car or up a tree. Dogs can be athletic but they are poor climbers. When they try to scramble up the smooth car kick them off and shout for help.
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  17. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    This is pretty interesting - if the man had run away, the dog would surely have chased and bit. Guy had nerves of steel!

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  18. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    That's about the best you can do against a dog I think. Kick out, dominate it, take its will to fight away, back it up, back away from it maintaining awareness and make a tactical escape knowing you may have to do it all over again if the dog comes back.
    axelb likes this.
  19. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    The only tiny ting I can add to this thread is I'm not sure if its disconcerting it, or submitting. I remember seeing there was a spat of advice going around once that if a dog is being aggy towards you you should stare it in the eye because if you broke contact the dog would assume you as weak and go for you. Vets came out saying it was awful advice as dogs see looking in their eyes as a challenge and its basically the worst possible thing you can do short of putting your leg in its mouth for it. So it might be disconcerting, or it might be placating
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  20. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Depends on the temperament of the dog. Stare at an insecure or nervous dog (MANY dogs attack and bite out of fear) and you can face it down (but only if it has space to escape).
    Stare at a guard dog or a dominant type dog, even when it's not being aggressive and it could be seen as a challenge.

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