Danish Cartoons

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4673908.stm


this should really worry any believer in free speech and, in my opinion, highlights just how vital it was that the religious hatred bill was defeated in the commons.

 

Yeah this one has been all over the news for the past two days.

It's a touchy issue with the Muslim world as a rather large majority of them don't allow any depiction of human beings let alone the Prophet Muhammed. This is the reason for much of the incredibly ornate Kufic script that adorns the inside of mosques and other forms of Arabic scripts, patterned carpets and textiles and patterned tile work in the Arab and Muslim world.

While everyone has the right to free speech it appears sadly that many abuse the right to poor taste as well.

A vast majority of the worlds Muslims do not support terrorism in any way, shape or form... but the cartoonist/paper here are attempting to paint a figure of Islam as one of nothing but murderers when that's not the case.

Given the current amount of strife around the world between Muslims and western countries I can't see publishing these kinds of cartoons as too smart of a move. It just comes off as rather inflamatory. What really is the point? It's a blanket generalization to what end?

However, I did see an interview with the editor of the newspaper at the center of the controversy and he does have a point when he states that it's not up to groups like Hamas to dictate what can and can't be printed in the free press. Though I think the cartoons offend a much larger number of the Muslim world than just extremist groups like Hamas.

Free speach is a good thing but it comes with a responsibility and in this case one has to wonder if that responsibility hasn't been shirked.

The media itself is just as much to blame for this as it has only focused on groups like Hamas taking over the UN building in Gaza but it has done little to show the response of the millions of other non militant Muslims around the world. As always the media loves to have their cake and eat it too... usually at the expense of the average person who is just trying to put food on the table for their family and get by... which is by and large the majority of the Muslim population... hardly and different than much of the Western population when it comes right down to it.

Here are some of the cartoons that have caused the anger:
http://www.di2.nu/files/Muhammed_Cartoons_Jyllands_Posten.html

 

political satire has to feed off current affairs and there isnt anything much more topical than islam at the moment; be it through iraq, immigration, terrorism etc. satire is frequently offensive or in bad taste but then so are a lot of comedies. the idea behind freedom of speech is that people can say whatever they want. in turn it is then the right of others to engage in discussion to rebute/ argue the points. publishing it may not have been smart, but the reaction has been scary and completely contradictory to the underpining of western society.

lets not forget what mohammed did during his life. he was an aggressor definately.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed#War

 

All fairly tame stuff, to be honest. I don't really see why all the fuzzywuzzies are getting quite so worked up about a bunch of middle-of-the-road scribblers (if you want to see quality comic draughtsmanship, look at something by steve bell, Guilray or searle. Then look at these and you'll see the difference.) in Denmark. If something really is objectionable (as a few of these cartoons are), the best approach is to give the author enough rope to hang himself. It works for racists, it works for politicians, it definetly works for creationists, and it will continue to work.

 

Point well taken. I've always been a big fan of satire - perhaps my first introduction to it being Voltaire (François-Marie Arouet).... and in particular his work Candide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide

True... and again point well taken - but even with freedom of speech it doesn't mean you can yell fire in a crowded movie theatre.

As for the reactions being so contradictory to western society.... my my what short memories we have... I think you're overlooking that it's not contradictory to much of what Western society was for hundreds of years... mentioning the name of the lord in vain or any other such blasphemy at many different periods in Western history could land you in the gallows or have you severely punished by the authorities.

I think perhaps you forget that even science at one point was frowned upon and it's more than one scientist who ran afoul of the powers that be for stating what we now accept today as common knowledge.

No more or less so than any of the Western European powers of that time - lest we forget the Crusades.

 

Interesting take on it, I'd have to say in some ways I agree with you.
To some extent it's the kind of event that can and is being whipped up by the media - while there are far more important issues happening at the moment - many of them are routinely pushed aside in the world of soundbite media for the easy mark such as this kind of story.

Sadly on the flipside of that same coin is the fact there hasn't ever really been much free media or the freedom of speech as we've come to understand it in the Western world... people often forget that it's not only the Muslim world that doesn't generally enjoy the same freedom of speech as the West but also the Bhuddist world as well... Thailand has a dismal record when it comes to the freedom of speech. Burma has zero freedom of speech. Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam also have little if any freedom of speech. Even their financially better off neighbors like Singapore lack freedom of speech as we've come to understand it in the west... and of course I don't even need to mention China... the likes of which has Western companies like Google and Microsoft actively contributing to the censorship free speech and the restrictions placed upon it by working directly with the Chinese government to allow the government censoring of the world wide web via their software.

I think you can easily say that in that particular case the West is definitely attempting to raise the double standard.

 

Although, by complaining about these drawings they've given the artist the best possible media coverage. Does nobody ever think of this

 

Knight, the big deal is that the cartoonists insulted Islam. Thus, by Islamic law, they must die.

If he had insulted Christians, the political elite of Europe would snicker and laugh about "those stupid Christians" and Christians would turn the other cheek. Insult Muslims, you die.

slip, freedom of speech definitely means Christians are fair game, Muslims are protected.

I am unaware of the death sentence being handed out in the West for use of the Lord's name. Have any citations???

Science enjoys a great freedom in the West. It is under Islam that science attempts to "chain the hand of Allah" and is frowned upon.

The Crusades were defensive in response to Muslim conquests. The crusades were nothing like Muslim conquests (although both were mindlessly bloody).

 

Yes unfortunately much of the world of fanatic Islam see's it this way. However as I've stated there is massive population of Muslims around the world that do not adhere to the principles. So to try to paint all Muslims as the same is ridiculous as it is erroneous.

Nice try.

I think if you do some studying on your European history during the dark ages I'm sure you'll find more than enough to keep you happy. Or you could take a look at the way that heretics were treated. It wasn't exactly warm fuzzy feelings that brought about the reformation or led so many Christians of different beliefs to flee to the Americas.

Sadly it wasn't always this way. But since a group of fanatical Mullah's handed down a decree stating that any reinterpation of the words of the Prophet Muhammed was illegal and sinful and therefore punishable by death... the Muslim world has declined - largely in part because of this. They were once on the cutting edge of science - when Europe was still in the dark ages and when the Moors controlled Spain - Spain was the center of knowledge and science under Muslim rulers.

That's highly debateable... not a theory that everyone buys into and hardly the standard model for historians and academics.

 

Slip Muhammed the prophet was a paedophile and a murderer. His teachings are tainted, it's ok to hate people who idolise a paedo.

 

Sorry - but probably the single dumbest post I've ever read on MAP. Maybe you can get an award for it.

 

sigh - honestly there is one of these types in every conversation these days isn't there. it makes me sad to read this kind of nonsense.

 

It's not nonsence, he was a career criminal who ordered several assasinations and married a 9 year old girl, but did not violate her tilll she was 11 (Allia or Alia) before he was visited by god and became the prophet. It makes me sad to read liberal claptrap from people who are incapable of doing research and just spout off.

 

Theres a lot to be said for not talking about religion!

I saw a picture of the disgruntled guy with an AK47, does seem an over reaction to some cartoons....

Although as el tejon says it depends which side of the fence you look at it from. Does strike me as double standards

 

Adouglasmhor - you're sounding foolish here frankly.

I think you did your research you'd find that an arranged marriages of that type and that age gap were perfectly acceptable in that century and in the context of that culture. And it wasn't only in the Middle East that it took place... it's known to have taken place in just about every society at some point.

There are many socio-economic factors for those kinds of marriages within those types of societies not the least of which is the average age people lived to in those days. So it's rather silly to judge something like that by todays standards. The goal posts have been moved completely out of the stadium.

As for career criminal - that's exactly how the west would love to paint it isn't it. Damn those Muslims - how dare they... I mean after all us Christian westerners are always in the right... and the immaculate conception proves it.

 

I am an animist pagan if anything and all religions have negative points but in Islam they far outway the positives. Jews and christians are allowed to live under Islam but I am suposed to be killed on the spot if I do not convert.

 

LOL!
I get it now... you were after some attention.

 

Adouglasmhor>
There's no point trying to tar everybody who follows a particular religion with the same brush. In fact, unless you know one of them personally, I wouldn't aspire to hold any opinions whatsoever. You have to remember the huge gap between the two cultures- if somebody had tried something like that on a christian subject in the 16th century, imagine the response. Don't be too quick to pass judgement.

 

Islam is a religion of stagnation, and the majority of it's followeres are 3rd world people living in medieval societies. So they are in the middle ages and show no sign of leaving it.

 

heres some info from ex Muslims
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/