I'm thinking about switching to Aikido. Not now, and not because I don't think my current style is innefective, but because I've always favored a grappling art, especially an extremely defence oriented one, since that will prevent me from attacking someone in a fit of anger (I've never done that, but I don't trust myself). Besides, I'm in 3rd year Japanese, and learning Korean is messing me up Anyhoo, I did a search for some Dojo's in my area, and got a few, but most of them have 1st and 2nd dan instructors. My questions is, is Aikido as prone to McDojoism as more popular (or competative) MA's? Is a 1st dan as hard to get as it was way back when? Or are these just probably McDojo's? I'm in no hurry to join, I still have 5 months left of prepaid TKD, and I have a strong feeling that if I tell my parents I want to quit, they'll stop paying for my MA. So I'll have to wait for school to be over, then I'll just get a full time job to pay for it. PL
Firstly Aikido is not a grappling art, sorry. (hell no-one really knows what it is) Secondly no, there is not much of the McDojo syndrome in Aikido. But there are a fair amount of clubs where the training is 'not very good' from a self-defence point of view. If you are going to have some free time when you leave school, many countries have uchi-deshi programmes with very high grade Aikidoka. It is worth considering a 3 or 6 month term like that as more effective than 2 years normal training.
Yes it is. But we had a long thread on this question already, and a few people held to this "incorrect" view. ( Heh heh) True. I have not found any aikido McDojos either, nor have I heard of any from other people. If they exist, they must be rare. All of first and second dan students whom I have met, without exception, were/are qualified to teach aikido. All of them. But like Dexter said, many clubs don't focus on self-defense fighting. Many clubs prefer to focus on the budo aspect of the martial art aikido (and I emphasize that it is still a martial art, even when fist-fighting is not emphasized).
What do you mean by the Budo aspect? The code of honor and such? Fighting isn't that important to me really. Don't really like tournaments, and I doubt I'll ever get into a real fight. PL
Aikido was not developed for kill-or-be-killed situations. It is wholly unsuitable for the battlefield. Aikido was developed as tool to teach people to stop fighting one another. This "stop fighting" attitude leads to parallels and applications to life off the mat. Aikido's vocabulary and peculiar philosophical foundation allows one to easily analogize arguments, and lesser disagreements, with other people (spouse, boss, client, neighbor, anyone) as an exchange of verbal punches, and these abstract punches can be dealt with according to aikido's repetoire of techniques. Now a big chunk of life just became aikido. Extend this mode of thought further: Even before the verbal battle, were you "centered" ? Were you thinking about your breathing and your posture? Were you aware of your surroundings? All of these things are crucial to success on the mat. And if the mat has been extended to the rest of your life, then everything you do in the dojo should also follow you into the rest of your life. The aikido experts begin their defenses the moment the attacker commits to an attack. Analogize that to life off the mat. If you could blend with a person before the disagreement starts, you wouldn't have a disagreement, would you? Ahh -- the goal of aikido (peace) has been achieved. This does not mean be a door mat for the rest of the world. You need be on the receiving end of only one nikkyo lock or one irimi-nage to know that aikido's defensive techniques, properly executed, leave the attacker utterly at the mercy of the aikidoist. Harmony-of-energy is an extremely powerful tool. Working the other way, if you don't want to open yourself up to attack, you would try hard to always treat people with love and respect, and live an upright and honorable life. O-Sensei is often quoted as saying, "Aikido is love." There are many quotes by O-Sensei to the effect that the highest level of aikido is pure love for all people. We now have the basis for budo -- the "way" of the warrior as in the "lifestyle" of the one who studies martial arts even when he's not fighting. All of this might seem like touchy-feely abstract mumbo-jumbo, but really now, how often do we engage in a fist-fights? Rarely, I think. I'm still waiting for my first, actually. But how many of us find ourselves in arguments on a weekly basis? (I'm raising my hand.)
So how exactly would you learn that? Do you stage arguements that you have to get out of? And I'll assume you'll have to read a couple of books on Aikido, right? (I'll do that regardless) PL
"to properly understand that one's opponent is the same as oneself, one must accumulate life experience." -some Japenese guy from 500 years ago
Whoa, aikimac, I must object! Aikido (pre-WWII) is wholly suitable for battlefeild tactics. I suppose technically that's aikibujistu, but I am a student of the Samurai arts under Obata-san and we often discuss the difference between the passive, aikik-for-instance versons of things and the combat-effective battlefeild tactics.
1st dan is a lower dan level in aikido, but it is still true to its original form in how testing is done due to the nature of the budo. Also you can learn something from a person who has been in aikido for 5 minutes as apposed to 5 years. My instruction i believe is 3rd dan, and is incredible, I have trained with several others that are just as good if not better. It all depends on their approach to teaching. It is also nothing like other martial arts. If you want to chat more for some better info email me or im me under my aim name of amakasashi.
Aikido is definetly not a grapeling art. Aikido involves continuouse flowing movement. How do you flow if your rolling around on the deck trying to strangle someone between your thighs? So far as being effective on the battlefield is concerned, I doubt most people will have to worry about that aspect of things. As a method of self-defence Aikido if done properly is very effective. I'm not sudjesting we should be asking muggers to hold our wrists while we apply a nikkyo. But as a student becomes more proficient at Aikido he or she should begin to see opertunities where the principles of the techniques taught in the dojo could be applied in a real situation.
I think you've lead a sheltered Aikido life. There are MANY Aiki McDojo, some tolerable, some just plain **** taking. Wrong. Anyone who waits for a physical attack to start has waited too long. If we talk for a moment on the dynamics of conflict (especially in a modern context) there are several opportunities for a skilled Aikidoist to remove the problem long before a physical attack is launched. I'm an ex Prison Officer so, I understand the mechanics of threatening behaviour. As an individual you have to decide what you each consider threatening behaviour. For me personally the moment a person actually says he's going to "do" something I act. That said I judge events on their merits however, I never wait for a person to prepare much beyond the fact they know they have a problem with me. Why give them time to mentally psyche themselves up to a fight ? I can also say from several years in the company of prisoners, that fights always ALWAYS degenerate to the floor very quickly, taking early control of an aggressor or potential aggressor is a key to maintaining your advantage. Now, let’s talk about training for a moment; In the context of what was said.. "The aikido experts begin their defences the moment the attacker commits to an attack" The statement would be partially correct. Forget the "expert" part of the statement and we have a general situation that is common to most if not all aiki dojo... A technique is demonstrated, Uke provides the situation where that technique is required so, he attacks in a prescribed manor and Tori responds. We practice that way to allow structure to a class, that everyone knows what they are expected to learn. It is NOT the way we would expect to apply ourselves in a (god forbid) real situation. There is a misnomer through many aikidoists that fights have rules, they DO NOT. The 'rules' we observe in the dojo bear absolutely no resemblance to real life, unfortunately many Aikido instructors fail to make that known. Aikido is not just about receiving an attack and dealing with it. The mental attitude of a student has huge impact upon the effectiveness of their skills, if one trains with the intention of waiting to receive an attack, then that’s EXACTLY what they'll get. Train to deal with the PERSON and not an attack is the key to resolving the physical conflict. DaveH
I haven't taken Aikido, so I'm a bit confused. Are you saying you're supposed to start the attack if you feel there's going to be a fight? PL
Lets make something clear, I don't wait for the "first punch" because it might not be a punch, I might be possibly a knife, screwdriver, pint glass, bottle or some other weapon. There is a growing knife/weapon carrying culture in the UK and I'd rather not wait to find that the person(s) in front of me has the capability to cause me serious injury. I was taught .. "Always assume your adversary is armed" I know it sounds like over kill but I'd rather be alive or reasonable unharmed than allow a situation to develop that could have been resolved long before an assault began. No, I'm not saying one should intentionally look to "start" fights, remember what I said about what you considered to be a threat. If you feel threatened, you have the option to remove that threat using a wide range of techniques and applications within Aikido, most of which are taught from a reactionary perspective however, many techniques can be applied from static positions. O-Sensei said.. "Aikido is 90% Atemi" As soon as you feel threatened deliver you atemi to fix your opponent momentarily, then take control accordingly. Simple principle really, the best form of defence is offence. Remember: DaveH
Just out of curiosity Dave, what would you consider to be a threat? I live in a rough area, so to see a few neds walking around in a gang can be threatning. But the only action required there would be to cross the street. Unless the neds push their luck.
I absolutely agree, walking away is by far the best option if you have the chance, no disputing that. My definition of a threat (and please bear in mind that discussion here makes it difficult to describe real situation) If I were placed in a position where the "Push you **** me" situation existed, you know the score, someone has an argument.. Then comes the pushing.. then comes the fisticuffs If someone is effectively in my face and I strongly believe he's about to escalate to physical other than purely verbal behaviour I will act accordingly. That said, if someone is very verbally aggressive and his manor, posture and general demeanour is that of 'I'm about to kick the ****e out of you' I will initiate the physical side very quickly. Basically it's a very fine line between seeing what's around the corner and making the decision that waiting isn't going to be the best option. Alcohol and drugs make this process more complicated. A drugged or ****ed up scumbag isn't going to listen to reason. No matter how much you attempt to calmly resolve an 'indifference' that person might have, your simply wasting your time and effort. Walk away if you can otherwise act positively and decisively. You've also got to weigh up your surroundings and environment, consider very quickly the reasons why this person is in your face and presenting you with a fight or flight situation. Be prepared to deal with the police. Remember you are allowed by law to use 'reasonable force' if you feel the safety of yourself, friends, family or work colleague is in jeopardy. Regards
Yeah I absolutly agree Dave. That's pretty much how my teacher would put it. Have you ever practiced with Sensei Andrew?
I'm in Barrhead near Glasgow. We used to be part of the Ki Federation of Great Britain under Sensei Williams. Sensei Andrew broke away in 2000 and formed Aikido UK.
Ah oki, then I'd proberbly say "no" I havent, I haven't had the opportunity to practice 'North of the Border' although did take a couple of Ki Aiki classes as part of a seminar a few years ago in Birmingham. Personally I think Tohei Sensei was a top bloke. I've seen the B/W footage of him with two US marines at the old Hombu Dojo Post War, his hakama gets ripped to shreds but the Marines (who dwafed Tohei) got thrown and pinned lol.. Verry Interesting to watch. DaveH
