Currently Doing Japanese Jujutsu, but still not sure...

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by reneg, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. Devon Smith

    Devon Smith New Member

    "goshin"

    Use of the generic "goshin" (護身), is probably as old as the Japanese language. It just means 'protect/safeguard/keep' the 'body/somebody/self'. In Hakkoryu we use the term "goshin jutsu" to describe practical applications of core principles for personal defense.

    Daitoryu uses the term in naming a specific section of its techniques called "goshin'yo no te" (護身用の手) meaning 'using the hand for self-defense'. To say that is Hakkoryu's "base" would be incorrect as similarities exist between the two schools among all six catalogs of the Daitoryu.

    Devon
     
  2. righty

    righty Valued Member

    I'm going to make any comment on the nature of the Jujutsu that you are learning. But six months contracts where you have to send in a letter 2 months in advance before leaving is just ridiculous. I love Jujutsu but I would never go for a club that has that kind of contract.

    Leave and try Judo.
     
  3. reneg

    reneg New Member

  4. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    I've had a similar problem with modern styles of Jujitsu, if you call it Jujitsu, a LOT of people assume you're talking about BJJ, but if you call it Japanese Jujitsu you're 'wrong', I still often use JJJ just as a term to clearly diferenciate what I'm talking about, just as it saves having to clarify later =p

    But on this site you have the bonus of different sub forums for Jujitsu and BJJ, so less clarification is needed.
     
  5. reneg

    reneg New Member

    Well, even tho they have a 6 months contract they still offer Jujitsu, Kickboxing, Boxing, Wado Ryu Karate, MMA, and Pekiti Tirsia Kali for the same contract and prize. So I can crosstrain whenever I want to for the same amount of money. They also have a deal with the local shop so I get 20% off on any equipment and some other bonuses at the local gyms. So the contract in itself isn't that bad imo. The club is one of the biggest in Norway. There is approx 500 members in the club.
     
  6. reneg

    reneg New Member

    Anyways, Judo and Jujitsu are similar I guess. I understand the way you break your opponents balance in jujitsu. Atemi seems good in a real life situation, judo uses some other ways to break balance, so which one would actually be the best for use in self defense? Jujitsu teaches strikes and kicks which is a bonus. The classes we do is also very self defense related. If I would start training judo I might start doing competitions, but it's not something I'm too eager to do.
     
  7. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    I go with "Japanese" Jiu Jitsu to describe the style I used to learn, the scare quotes being used to indicate that their stated history is imaginary and their closest connection to Japan is via Judo/typing things into Google translate to sound more authentic.
     
  8. peterc8455

    peterc8455 Valued Member

    That doesn't really provide a lot of information on Goshindo especially in the history section.

    It says amongst other things that Goshindo is "based on the teachings of several schools traditional such as Hakko-Ryu Ju Jitsu and Daitoryu Aikijujutsu ".

    These are honest questions. Do you know who Alain Sailly studied under to learn Hakko-Ryu Ju Jitsu and Daitoryu Aikijujutsu and for how long?

    Or is this trying to say that he learned Judo and Aikido and through "association" he learned the former?

    Now some of this may be chalked up to translation but the history says "For 10 years, Alain Sailly learned from his meetings with various teachers of many styles". Well the obvious question is what styles were they and what did he learn or were they just meetings or seminars?

    Watching some of these videos this doesn't look like JJ and honestly it looks like the standard mixture of aikido, karate and judo that we see so often.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL4i4dioLmY"]Goshindo - Dojo Alain Sailly in Annecy - YouTube[/ame]

    Try some classes at a good Judo or BJJ school and compare. You have nothing to lose and IMHO any good school will let you take a couple classes for free.
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Peter you really must warn if you are going to post videos like that when I have just eaten...they make me feel quite ill
     
  10. peterc8455

    peterc8455 Valued Member

    Why? You didn't like the sequence at 0:13 of kind of bear hug, elbow strike and then take 6 seconds to try to peel their fingers off? :evil:
     
  11. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Your a bad bad man!
     
  12. Bomber

    Bomber Valued Member

    Most styles of Western Gendai Japanese Style Jujitsu typically include lots of throws. For this reason I think that to be a great practitioner it is best to become proficient in Judo first. Learn to throw people who are resisting. Learn to throw people who actually know grappling. Then and only then is it worth trying to learn jujitsu. Good jujitsu will fill gaps often found in judo training such as atemi waza (striking) and utilising throws against a person trying to punch you.
     
  13. MaxSmith

    MaxSmith Valued Member

    In which case you probably need to take up boxing to properly learn how to puch against resisting opponents. Then take up Muay Thai if you want to learn how to kick and use elbows and knees properly against a resisting opponent. And while you're at it, it's a good idea to take up bjj to learn a more comprehensive ground game against a resisting opponent...

    Then you can go back to Goshin Jujutsu to really make it work- or at least the less compliant parts of it- though I'm not quite sure there's a good reason why you'd bother.
     
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

  15. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    It only holds your trousers up ...and your jacket together

    Dont fret tit

    Alan Smurf
     
  16. Jumonkan

    Jumonkan Valued Member

    Mmm fair enough

    (Thanks Devon!! I couldn't remember the exact terms Goshin yo no te is correct)

    Having experienced and now trained both, I find Hakko ryu to be more similar to Goshin yo then most of the other waza.


    James
     
  17. Okinawanbudo

    Okinawanbudo New Member

    Hi
    Fusen is quite right, if it is Japanese Ju Jutsu it would most certainly be the Ju Jutsu of the Japanese. Usually such forms that are based on earlier Japanese traditional forms of martial arts are often referred to as Japanese non traditional Ju Jutsu (Nihon Goshin Ju Jutsu), for example the Hakko Ryu which is based in part on Daito Ryu. Japanese Ju Jutsu is very specific in its approach and often contains at least some traditional Japanese weaponry and usually uses Japanese terminology and very few if any badges on gi's. Ju Jutsu in the sense of Japanese Ju Jutsu is a very generic term anyway and could even include Judo as a form of Ju Jutsu. Much so called Japanese Ju Jutsu in the traditional sense of the word is part of a wider curriculum of a traditional Ryuha i.e. Takenouchi Ryu for example has a Ju Jutsu section but it is a small part of what the whole curriculum contains. Some Japanese Ju Jutsu may often be no more than a few techniques (and this could be as few as 10) that are taught as a small part of a curriculum that is mostly sword for example. In the circles I travel in the mention of Japanese Ju Jutsu generally refers to specific styles such as Ryoi-Shinto Ryu, Tenshin Shinyo Ryu, Hontai Yoshin Ryu and Hakko Ryu Ju Jutsu. Besides Goshindo means non traditional way.
    I looked at the videos in this thread and this is most certainly not a Japanese form of Ju Jutsu I can see elements modified from Karate (originally an Okinawan art), modified Judo and Aikido type techniques in it which is common to most modern non Japanese forms of Ju Jitsu which this most certainly is (I also notice that this style comes under the auspices of World Kobudo Federation; A WJJF spin off) Some points from the video in Halifax http://www.budoglobal.com/video-gallery?id=3 at 0.10 this type of turn would not be seen in Japanese traditional systems, 0.21 the use of the leg over the arm is too fancy and not pragmatic enough for any form of Japanese Ju Jutsu system, Hook/Heel kick at 0.26, at 0.34 -0.36 this looks like a variation of an Aikido Shiho Nage (there are similar Ju Jutsu versions) but by 0.36 the Uke would be one the ground. 0.45 Karate blocking techniques, 0.21 looks like entry to a Rice Bail Throw, 1.22 looks like a modified version of a Judo Kesa Gatame, repeated at 1.41. I also noticed the pictures on the wall at the end of the video one of which was Jigaro Kano next to Dan Inosanto. This of course does not mean that there is anything wrong with what is being taught or practiced. As regards whether it is good for self defense situations it could be, but to be effective it needs not to be too fancy and would need to be to the point, for example the type of technique with that turn at 0.21 would IMHO be a bit risky. Some people would argue that Judo is better for competitions than self defense, though many Judoka would disagree. The fact is any martial art (traditional or modern) will give an edge in self defense situations compared to doing nothing.

    Regards

    Chris Norman
     
  18. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Who you calling a tit?



    :eek:
     
  19. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Sorry but I can't agree with that. Sometimes doing nothing is exactly what you need to do, especially if you've been taught a load of nonsense that is likely to get you hurt because you have false confidence.
     
  20. Okinawanbudo

    Okinawanbudo New Member

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