confused about kempo.....

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by kryptonite, Sep 3, 2004.

  1. Colin Linz

    Colin Linz Valued Member

    It is my understanding that earlier Romanising systems used n. This was because the Europeans who developed it, had hearing that was more attuned to this sound, the current, and more accurate method generally Romanise it as m. Japanese people don’t vocalise a distinct n, or m. It is more halfway between the two, and will change depending on grammatical structure. This is similar to the way keri (kick) will change to geri when used within different grammatical structures. If you look to see how the Japanese Romanise it, it will generally be as kempo. But as I said earlier, it is not that important.

    Anyway I'm off. I have a training seminar to go to. We are having an Oceania area training seminar this weekend with three high ranking Japanese instructors from WSKO attending so it should be good. I could ask them, but they would probably think I'm stupid for asking it, rather than how do I do Okuri maki tembin or some other technique :)
  2. tommy

    tommy New Member

    hahaha have fun!
  3. Omicron

    Omicron is around.

    Oh yes....okuri maki tembin is the coolest.
  4. Tripitaka of AA

    Tripitaka of AA Valued Member

    correct:) 拳法

    err, no.:(


    err, no. The Chinese word is spelled in English as Chu'an fa

    ken is the English (Roman letters) way of writing 拳 which translates as "fist". 法 is actually pronounced ho (with a long "o", like the sound in the English word "boat"), and translates as "method". The ho becomes a po when used in compound words with a preceding syllable, hence kenpo.

    In the current method of romanisation, the "n" before a "p" is changed to an "m" as this most closely approximates the sound of the spoken word. Older romanisation methods did not make the distinction (and neither does the Japanese syllabary method, called hiragana, which has no symbol for "m" anyway).

    Another example where this change is shown (as well as Senpai/sempai) is the word for "newspaper", which can be seen written in Romaji (Roman letters) as both shimbun or shinbun.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2004
  5. Tripitaka of AA

    Tripitaka of AA Valued Member

    I spent so much time trying to get the italics and bold bits right, that I forgot to include enough friendly faces :). Sorry if it came across as a bit hard-edged. I'm just trying to get the definitive explanation down on the screen (so I can cut'n'paste the next time I want to pt it in a thread ;) ).

    Nice thread though, I thought :D.
  6. tommy

    tommy New Member

    Now that was funny and informative..thanks ha
  7. Kusarigama

    Kusarigama Valued Member


    "Kenpo" is more than just utilitarian kenjutsu.

    "Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo" is a 400 year old Koryu.

    'Kenpo', in this case, is defined literally as "methods/teachings/skills of the sword".

    Please visit our site for more information:
  8. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    I can say that Kempo / Kenpo are generic terms and that is why some, such as myself use it. And with the Kenpo in the USA there are many differant styles that have a link to the original Hawaiin derived Kempo / Kenpo.
  9. Colin Linz

    Colin Linz Valued Member

    Yes indeed it is, it is one of the reasons that arts that mix it with another generic term like Karate, or indeed yours Jujutsu confuse me. I don’t mean to offend anyone by this, I just have trouble understanding why they do it.
  10. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    Sometimes it's just the way of evolution. People like me walk a differant path. You can read my bio here:

    After all of these years I think I have a good perspective on what I'm doing. I do have a mix but it is complete. I do address the "new breed" of martial artists coming up. It seems that in the USA some of the trad. schools are lacking in that area. I also teach my students the weaknesses of all the systems that I've trained in over the years. And how to "fight their fight" on not their opponents fight.
    James Kovacich
  11. Colin Linz

    Colin Linz Valued Member

    So would I be right in saying that you do it because it shows that what you teach is an amalgamation of the two art forms?

    There should be plenty of room inside styles for individuality; one of the most individual characters I know is the head of the European Federation of Shorinji Kempo (Aosaka sensei). Individual interpretations and techniques are the by-products of the Shu, Ha, Ri process, this ensures that the arts continually evolve, but still remain true to their foundation principles.

    I’m not sure what you mean by “new breed of martial artists”, but it is true that Traditional forms of budo may not suit everyone. The problem with suiting every one is that often it requires you to remove aspects of the art that you think are important. Because we cannot make money from teaching Shorinji Kempo we are free of commercial restrictions. This gives us more leeway to be able to not follow the crowd, or remove aspects of the art that some people don’t want. A number of people don’t like the idea of learning philosophy, and just want to fight. That’s fine, but I won’t be changing what I teach, it has too much value. They are free to go elsewhere.

    This is not meant as criticism of what you are doing, just to offer a different viewpoint on the points you mentioned.
  12. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    Actually there is no Trad. Kempo at all. The Ju Jitsu is Brazilian and Budoshin which I am student of.

    My Kempo's base comes from Jun Fan Gung Fu. Kempo Ju Jitsu's name comes from the fact that Kempo and Ju Jitsu are two words that can not or at least "should not" be trademarked because no one or any single art can stake claim to those two words.

    Now Kempo Ju Jitsu is a 3rd generation Kempo sub-system to come from Jun Fan Gung Fu. The first being Gary Dills Bushido Kempo and the second being Carter Hargraves American Combat Kempo. If one was to "best describe" these arts one would say they were modified Wing Chun.

    My Gung Fu comes from one of the senior students of the Oakland Jun Fan Gung Fu Institute. Jun Fan Gung Fu later evolved into Jeet Kune Do but Jun Fan is the "base art." Others teach "Jeet Kune Do Concepts" which is very differant the Gung Fu version.

    I've trained Karate most of my life along with several other arts. "My truth" is a reality for me today. Many people train all of their lives in the arts but not to many will actually "test" their arts against "live (non-compliant) resistance" and thats alone sets me apart from many.

    The "new breed" are hybrid martial artist who are proving "to us" that we need "live resistance" training. Any one can say my art does this or that or I'll attach your vital parts but I can assure you that when I'm submitting someone my vital points are not exposed.

    And anyone who is so sure that their art is so complete that they don't need "live resistance" training then they should walk into a Muay Thai Gym just once and try their art out against a Thai fighter. Just once will do. :D
  13. niclans

    niclans Valued Member

    Wow akja, this hybrid thing, yeah it does make me think too about live training, been practicing that for few months now with my cousins. By the way, we train in Shorinji Kempo, when out of dojo we trained ground fight by ourselves because there's no BJJ here and judo centre is quite far from my place. Suprisingly here my place, the guy to beat/test are those from Shorinji Kempo blackbelters. Just that they usually win when other guys from other MA (e.g karate,MThai,TKD etc) challenge them.
  14. Colin Linz

    Colin Linz Valued Member

    Live resistance training is just randori. I don’t think it is anything new, at least not in Shorinji Kempo anyway.
  15. Flashing Dagger

    Flashing Dagger Valued Member

    With your experience in Okinawan Martial arts and from what you know of American Kenpo would you consider it to be more influenced by Okinawan kenpo or Chinese martial arts. I've always been confused by the vaugueness of Kempo history. Some AK people claim that it has a more Chinese character and the instructors are called 'sifu' instead of 'sensei'. Mitose's family was Japanese, but connections have been made with Okinawans such as Choki Motobu.

    A view unpopular with the AKer's and held by the Tracy's is that Kenpo has always been an Okinawan art until Parker tried to turn it into Americanized version of Kung Fu with Chinese forms developed by Jimmy Woo.

    Who knows?.....And for every opinion there is always some person regarded as authority somewhere else who has an opposite viewpoint.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2006
  16. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    Hey now! Those of us who DO practice tiny little insignificant back woods arts take great umbrage at that! ;0) Great discussion everyone.

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