Concerning hapkido

So, like I see posts by bruce et al all the time talking about hapkido but what actually IS hapkido. What are its aims and training methods, I know that sparring isnt used, but neither has it well defined kata as found in daito ryu etc.

So what actually IS IT? And what is it for?

And please can everyone not debate me, or challange any of my preconcieved ideas.

I thank you in advance.

 

LOL, and we poke the bear with a stick right out of the gate. I like it!

Hapkido as I'm learning it is largely self defense oriented. joint locks, grabs, throws, coupled with kicks and strikes are the arsenal of weapons we learn to employ in various ways.

Some schools teach forms but they arent "kata" as you'd call it.

The name hap ki do can be translated several different ways but essentially its the way of combined energy. I'm sure someone else will have a different, more accurate translation for you.

Hapkido has taken theories and techniques from various other styles and incorporated them into a cohesive system that I happen to think is the bees knees.

There, that shouldnt have challenged anything

 

If I recall correctly, it's just the Korean way of reading the word "aikido".

 

Now, where is my popcorn?

 

From what I've seen it's the ******* child of aikido and taekwondo

 

Well..... lets see..... "What is Hapkido?".... is that the question? Well, do you want information and accuracy or do just want someone to quote the current drivel that PASSES for information?

There are a few Histories out on the market but you are going to find that the History's veracity is a direct function of the person reporting the History.

Lets take the single cleanest route, shall we? To keep things simple we can say that the Hapkido arts started with CHOI Yong Sul (1899-1986). Whatever CHOI learned, he learned in Japan where he lived from 1908 to 1946 and maintained a relationship with the TAKEDA family there. The BIG question is "What did he bring back to Korea?" There are three lines proceeding from CHOI directly, and I can speak to the YONG SUL KWAN line. According to the head of that tradition, the original art taught by CHOI was a utilitarian practice consisting of 16 strikes, 18 kicks and approximately 600 grappling techniques including fractures, throws, locks and pins. There was an additional line of short stick material, some sword and some cane or umbrella techniques.

Following two failed attempts at teaching, Choi met SUH Bok Sub in 1948. A Judo practitioner, the relationship between Choi and Suh added structure such as an organized curriculum, belt ranks and an organized classroom approach. Identified as HAPKIYUSOOL, this practice evolved into HAPKIYUKWONSUL.

In 1957 JI Han Jae and KIM Moo Woong broke away to develop a more marketable art for the Korean public. Both added a broad range of kicking techniques and softened the painful HAPKIYUKWONSUL techniques in order to appeal to a wide range of Koreans who were passing familiar with Taekwondo and used that as their frame of reference for other MA.

From this point that is a fundamental split with the Japanese-influenced practices going in one direction and a growing roster of arts utilizing a more Chinese infleucne going in another direction.

Let me stop for a minute.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

Really? C'mon guys....

 

What is Hapkido?

I believe people like comparisons to give some frame of reference. We could compare Hapkido with MMA and see how that goes :Angel:

Haha

Seriously though, take a time machine back and we might be using the term "complete system" for much of what all the hoopla is these days. Back in the day people talked about ranges of combat, not to separate weapons, kicking, punching, clinching, grappling into artificial boundaries, but because understanding range and motion was part of actual combat expertise. Range and mobility could be key factors in the end result of combat.

Hapkido could be classified as a complete system because it covers expertise in all ranges. MMA also could be considered a complete system for the same reasons, except for weapons, but some organizations such as the Dog Brothers do take MMA methods of training into the weapons ranges too.

Hapkido is not MMA because MMA is based on a particular arena of combat (e.g. rules of engagement in a sport). Hapkido is not based on a sport. However, training methods employed in MMA are used in many martial systems, including many schools that teach Hapkido. Examples would be "alive" training and randori (e.g. sparring) as well as many schools practicing ground combat (e.g. rolling).

Where MMA and Hapkido overlap is in the training for all the hand-to-hand ranges. Whereas MMA might more often than not use kick boxing or Thai boxing, boxing, and Judo or submission wrestling in combination, Hapkido is Korean in origin and IMHO, is a combination closer to the Korean equivalent of the Japanese arts of Karate, Judo, and Aikido.

Thereby I have put forth the idea that Hapkido is a complete art (covering all ranges), is a combination of arts (something like karate, Judo, and Aikido combined), and is Korean in origins. I have also stated that Hapkido is NOT MMA but can share similar training methods with MMA.

IMHO, we are no closer to defining Hapkido than when I started this post.

Honestly, is there anything I can say about Hapkido? Well having sparred and trained with Hapkido folks, I would say that in principle, the kicks are closer to Muay Thai kicks than karate. The kicks are not usually retracted back like in karate, but are allowed to follow through and penetrate deeply into the target. The kicks are more circular, leaving the leg out. This is similar to the type of kicking such as with the round kick as used in Thai boxing.

Well I could say more, but I think I've said enough for now.

 

Hapkido claims to be descended from Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu, and then subsequently influenced by Judo and Taekwondo. Looking at their techniques I tend to believe that there is a link to some form of Jujutsu, although there is zero proof for their claim that Choi Yong sool studied under Takeda Sōkaku.

Overall, training appears to be physically strenuous but compliant. Variation between gyms is substantial (not much quality control).

 

I'm sure they've pretty much explained it full and well, but I just thought I'd add that where I train we spar from time to time

 

That's basically right yeah IIRC. "Ki" and "Do" being familiar to all and have the same meanings in Korea and Japan (or very close). Hap is then how Koreans express the word "ai" in Japanese. Which means harmony or unity I believe.
No need for the rolly eyes Mikey because Moosey was basically correct.

 

Bruce, that is where it came from, what is its aim, and what are its training methods?

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at there, but I wasn't being funny - it actually is the Korean way of reading 合氣道 - which in Japanese is "aikido".

 

(@ Mikey: I know what you are saying....the pattern has already started...a couple of intelligent responses and a bunch of off-the-wall comments. We have to work with this or this Forum is going to be nothing but a place where crap gets recycled. We're better than that.....)

 

Sorry, Fusen....but if you want an informative and respectful response I had to lay the foundation. What I wrote in my first post is KEY to understanding what it means when different people use the term "Hapkido".

Now.... if you go back the CHOI Yong Sul, he reported quite clearly that he spent seven years "training" on a corner of the TAKEDA estate. A significant portion of his duties were in running-down deserters from MIlitary conscription who fled the cities and tried to hide in the country. The nature of his training and practice, therefore seems to have been much more based on "aiki-jutsu" or the use of techniques based on the nature of the targets' behavior to disable or subdue him. This is very much a subset of the larger number of Modern AIKIJUJUTSU which borders on becoming a "-do" or a way of Living one's life. This is the very FIRST KEY point you need to know about the Hapkido Arts. What CHOI Yong Sul brought back to Korea was not the entire art of DAITO-Ryu Aiki-jujutsu. It was a combat subset of that practice.
The SECOND Thing you have to know is that What CHOI brought back to Korea was then ENHANCED with the sort of material SUH Bok SUB introduced as mentioned in my previous post. As of 1948 the intentions of making CHOI's material more structured or organized adds to the "jutsu"----"combat" if you like---nature with material taken from the Judo form practice in Korea. Where CHOI would have been very comfortable with hurting people----by all reports he was a rather nasty customer in the best of situations----Suh's influence may have been to take some of the "sting" out of the Choi material.
The THIRD thing you have to know is that practically EVERYBODY who spun off of the SUH/CHOI tradition was more concerned with propagation and marketing than the art. At that point you can firmly put a "-DO" on the word, an action commonly attributed to JI Han Jae.

Now....I'm gonna stop again because this is so important to understanding Hapkido in the World today that if a person does not understand these three points......trying to understand what followed and produced what we have today is going to be a hopeless mess. ANy questions before I go on?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

OK....lets nip this one in the bud.

The idea that HAPKIDO is the "Korean rendering" of "Aikido" can be traced directly to MYONG Jae Nam whose goal in starting the International Hapkido Federation (before 1973)was to meld Japanese pre-WWII Aikido with Post-WWII Hapkido. The goal was to become the identified head of this new hybrid in Korea as reecognized by the Aikido authorities in Japan. As a student of JI Han Jae in 1958, MYONG Jae Nam knew of the Japanese roots of the art he was practicing. He also knew that JI Han Jae was looking to build a MA "empire" out of his practice. MYONG probably saw a chance to do the same, but by reverting back to the original Japanese roots. Afterall Hapkido under Choi and Aikido under Ueyshiba both had the same common root.

Now....as far as the literacy of the issue...another little bit is in order.

During the Occupation Korean language was surpressed and Koreans were forced to use Japanese writing. This went up to and including changing Family names to their Japanese renderings. After WW II the Koreans wanted to reestablish their Korean literacy but had to rely on Japanese lexicons and dictionaries to ascertain meanings, the Korean language having been basically a spoken and not written language until the 14th Century and then only among about 10% of the Korean population who were literate. The are a number of renderings for the terms "Hap", "Ki" and "Do" but you would need to know the Pre-WWII rendering and the intent of the speaker to know what the meaning was.

As far as the nature of practice, the MYONG form of Hapkido is a reasonably good representation of Pre-WWII Aikido....but it is still a "DO" which means it is intended as a "Way of Life" of which SOME SUBSET is combat-worthy. Applications focus on pain-compliance and submission. Concussive techniques are used to facilitate the application of the techniques....what the Japanese call "atemi". Still with me?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

If people are ready to go to the next step in understanding Hapkido I need to explain that from this point moving forwards I no longer use the term "Hapkido" but Hapkido arts" instead. This is because if one begins with JI Han Jae in 1960, there is the start of a series of recombitant events where people are striving to establish the definitive nature of Hapkido. There are a vareity of Histories and assertions, claims and counter-claims. If you understand things up to this point you won't have too much trouble following. If what I have written so far does not make any sense there is no way you are going to understand when someone uses the umbrella term "Hapkido" to identify what they are doing. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

You're gonna hear what you want to hear and
judge how you want to judge.

I have no control over that.

Shut-up and learn something.