Then I'm not sure if I should offer my congratulations for having achieved such a high level of skill, or my condolences over having achieved such a narrowness of thought.
Hapkidoist, I've been think alot about this GM council & I do admit I have seen some evidence of somethinlike this but not quite as formal as a council and on a much smaller scale. In the LA area all the old GM's know each other and do have their own unofficial "council" but it seems to revolve primarily around protecting their business interests. I have never really heard about them being too worried about anyone's technique. They usually try their best to keep other koreans from moving into their business territory, and that is the only time I have ever seen them all work together. An example that I mentioned early is when a GM named Jun Chong opened up a gigantic TKD/HKD school a mile or so from Bong Soo Han and on the same street. Oh boy everyone was ****ed- I think that even He Il Cho got involved since he was the biggest "old school" Korean TKD GM in the area. I know that alot of pressure put on Jun Chong to get out of dodge. HKD guys in the area got together and did demo's to drum up support for Bong Soo Han HKD and then everyone got together and had a big hkd/tkd tournament that like every black belt in the LA area had to work at. It was pretty funny. It must have worked tjough because that school went out of business in a year or two. I know that there an Olympic TKD guy (who was actually in the Olympics) named Kyung Lee who got chased out of town as well when he oppened up in the same part of town as another HKD Master I know of. All kinds of high jinks like that!
Ya know, for all I know it could be something that the old GMs have gotten together and just done. I have taken calls from Ji at the old Dojang about the meatings and changing locations and reschedualing and what not, but being that I am not 2 things, 1 Korean and 2 at least an 8th dan I am only privy to so much. Just remember yall out there. Just cause we don't know about it, does not mean it does not exsist. As was said the older guys are very secrative and who knows what all is truly going on out there.
HKD is a child of all the old GMs and of students today, but back in the day it just seemed to have a strong karate influence. And I have seen some guys practicing that seem to be strongly rooted in a karate influince, and not TKD schools either. I am just very curios to know what the biggest diference between HKD in the 70s and HKD today. Has the influince changed much, is it more KF based in your Dojang or Karate. Inquiring minds wanna know.
What do you mean by "KF" based. does KF stand for Kung Fu? If it does I would say my HKD has nothing even remotely KF-ish about it. I think that would deviate enough from original HKD to no longer be HKD. It would be Kuk Sool, or Hwarang Do.
Sorry yea, Kung Fu. I am on Dragons list as well and ya get in the habbit of putting it that way. Now I'm not talking about all the extra movement, but more in the flow. Just like karate influinced. The way it flows. You know my mind could be stuck on TKD schools that claim HKD.
What do you mean by "flow"? I know that flowing techniques (principle of water) is an aspect of traditional HKD and is one of the 3 principles of HKD that I believe must be present in your technique in order to call what you do HKD. As an aside this is a great thread. I feel like I am getting alot of interesting info out of it.
I have seen that in some HKD schools the students are taught to move more with a karate influince. They are harder in their stances and not as physically relaxed. Thought their techniques and what not was accurate, they moved like a karate practitioner. Other schools were much more fluid in the body movements of the practitioner. Again the principals and techniques were there, but the way they moved with their body was more fluid. Teachers are going to wether consiously or sub consiously add the influinces of what they prefer most into the training af their system. Be it TKD, Muai Thai, Wing Chun influince, what ever. This goes with hoe they teach their students to move their bodies as well. What I am tryint to find out it what seems to be the most prevaliant way. How do you move. Even in Karate a practitioner can move hard in that Karate way and not waste to much energy. How prevaliant is each. I ask this becouse the concept of what makes HKD well HKD seems to vary. Are we looking at how a person moves, their techniques, phylosophy, principles. What are we making our judgement on. When we come to a mutual agreement in general it will also be able to help us see where we feel CHKD fits in. It just kinda seems like this went from a Sin Moo HKD v/s CHKD to, is CHKD even Hap Ki Do I think many people may have different ideas of what makes HKD what it is.
Ok, so you are actually using generic terms to describe style of movement rather than actually saying that a school's HKD is actually influenced by actual KF or Karate. Gotcha.
I'm trying to figure the best way to put it without making it seem as though I'm saying Karate HKD of Kunf Fu HKD, more how is your art influinced.
Greetings, I started in 1978 my teacher started in 1962 in korea under one of Ji's 1st generation masters and it was the same system. I also trained for a year with another Korean Master senior to my teacher by many years all the same Hapkido. I can trace my system back into the 50s and it's still the same, so again nothings changed in my lineage back to Ji Han Jae in Korea into the 1950s. So I don't know what you mean at all.
How about Linear or Circular? Blocking with fists or open hands? Kicking and striking just to kick or strike or do you direct the opponent into the kick or strike? Using PP's to finish the technique or integrated into technique as part of the whole? Leading the opponent into a hip or shoulder throw or just trying to throw them as they are? Footwork in technique is 1 or 2 steps or is it more complicated? Stances..high or low? How reliant on striking are you? If you answer all of these you are my hero.
Hapkidoin P, If I may try to fill in the answers from the style of Hapkido I take. 1.Majority of movements are done with circular techniques and we move at angles not straight line.(I said majority because some situations may not allow such movemnet or technique and linear maybe needed to get space to make the rest happen) 2.Blocks and Parries are done open handed to allow for the catch or grab to employ the lock or throw. 3.Kicking is done to soften an opponent or create an opening to close the gap,if within punching distance kicks would be employed low to stop,distract and soften the opponent. 4.We attempt to use Pressure Points to soften and to allow an easier execution of movemnets into techniques,we also try to employ them in controls as finishers.(I say try because pressure points are not guaranteed to work and some people may feel them in one area but not another) 5.A throw (High or low) must be entered into and set up with distracts and softening or they will not work against a resisting opponent. 6.Footwork is to step off line and take the opponent down with as few steps as needed,this maybe one or more depending upon the situation as we decide where to drop them as dteremined by the situation and need( does he have friiends nearby that I want to drop him between them and me) 7.Stance is a natural stance,not unsimilar to a boxers stance,hands open in what would appear a feign of compliance and dialogue to cause a mental disrupt. 8.Strikes are needed to distract , soften and make the opponent less resistant to our moves to technique.,strike as many times as needed to get the opponents unwilling compliance.
Thanks Jim, That sounds almost exactly like what we do. Good stuff. Do you make use of triangulation then as well? (Third point)
HapkidoinP, yes, we also use triangulation,if your use of the term is in reference to balance displacement (the point of attack at which the midpoint between the opponents two legs is attacked and or shifted to cause balance displacement)
Good point. I still don't necessarily agree with your opinion on this matter, but that was very well said.
To old friend Master Bob Just wanted to get in touch and let you know I'm back in action. Ron Wright 4th Dan Sin Moo Hapkido (Old Pacific Grove, CA dojang)
