Closing in for the clinch

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by TheMightyMcClaw, May 11, 2007.

  1. TheMightyMcClaw

    TheMightyMcClaw Dashing Space Pirate

    This is specifically regarding takedowns in no-gi, but could also apply to gi as well.
    First of all, I don't like to shoot in for double or single legs. I don't have a good shot, and I have an even worse sprawl and there are so many people with wrestling backgrounds that I feel like I'm playing "their game" if I try to go in for a shoot. So, whenever rolling or competing, I try to get into a clinch to work judo/greco-roman style upper body takedowns (body lock, hip throws). However, I find it's hard for me to get in close enough to work these types of throws unless my opponent is also going for an upper body takedown. In gi, I get stiff-armed by my collar and lapel; in no gi, my opponent usually shoots before I can establish a solid control (anything more than a wrist and the back of their head).
    Not having a wrestling background, my stand-up game is pretty weak. I've been taking judo, so my grip-fighting is improving for gi... not so much for no-gi.

    On a semi-related note, I've heard that you can use the gi to stuff your opponent's shot. Can anyone give me tips on this?
  2. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    Practice sprawling a lot and always circle. If they shoot on you, then you can counter it and get a better position.

    If they come in closer, work arm-drags, foot-sweeps, and try to look for underhooks while stepping in. I like to step toward them at angles so that they can't simply back away. It's difficult to explain and there are a lot of options with this.

    If they're stiff-arming you, circling won't really help. I'm not sure what the answer is for this in BJJ. In judo they will get shidos if they step outside, so I wait for them to push me back or circle away from the edge and then I make my move. Same deal with wrestling pretty much. But in BJJ maybe they can get away with stiff-arming you for a lot longer. I don't know.
  3. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Tilt your head down. Reach forward and charge for the waist yelling, "BANZAIIIIII!!!!!"
  4. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Do that and he'll end up on youtube in a 'WC vs grappler' vid ;)

    Working the greco stuff in this environment is going to be a beast, due to the wide base most folks will adopt. Greco works in MMA because folks generally have a more upright posture due to the fear of being hit.

    If you're looking for takedown options with the Gi, I'd suggest you try to find a Judo school. If you're looking for no-gi material I'd suggest you look to wrestling, if you can't beat em...... ;)
  5. TheMightyMcClaw

    TheMightyMcClaw Dashing Space Pirate

    On a related note, where does one go to learn Greco-Roman, anyway? Most of of the wrestlers I've encountered did folkstyle because they did it in high school/college.
    I am currently cross training in Judo, by the way... I want to get better at getting close enough to actually use my judo.
  6. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    Try your Uni's club wrestling (separate from the actual wrestling team). If it's like the one here they take people with no wrestling experience and train both Freestyle/collegiate and Greco. I'd be training myself if it didn't conflict with BJJ.
  7. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Do you mean to say Greco conflicts with BJJ? With the Gi, I'd say 'yes-ish' :D With no-gi, I'd say 'You'd be suprised at how much of greco clinch translates to no-gi groundwork (does this contradict what I previously said :confused: ).
  8. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    No, you're reading too much into it :D Time conflict, the worst kind!
  9. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Damn there only being 7 days in the week and real life getting in the way! ;)
  10. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    The worst part is that the no-gi BJJ and the wrestling club fall on the same days :( I could do gi-BJJ and wrestling but I don't really see that doing much for me. So pure BJJ it is.
  11. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    I think sprawling, shooting, and double and single leg takedowns are pretty essential skills, McClaw. If you can get by half the time without these tools right now, just imagine how formidible you'd be if you were a little better at them.

    Instead of trying to find shortcuts around these skills, I'd suggest you drill them over and over; you can only get better. If you're really not that good at sprawling and shooting, I see that as a major hole in your game, but one that can be easily rectified in 3 months time--with your background, probably even sooner.
  12. TheMightyMcClaw

    TheMightyMcClaw Dashing Space Pirate

    I certainly agree with you. Even if I don't like doing leg takedowns (I'm not against them, I just like upper-body takedowns better), the sprawl is an absolute necessity for BJJ... especially given the dominance in popularity of single-leg takedowns in BJJ competitions. That said, I still want to make judo/greco style throws the dominant aspect of my stand up game.

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