Clip Representative of Kempo?

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by flashlock, May 15, 2007.

  1. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Well it is to allow you to see what does happen, not what happened at full speed in the UFC 71 and ended quickly. Must be because of those deadly punchs that will drop one in their tracks no matter how well they are at fighting :p

    It looked like to me CL was playing possum to get Jackson to get caught in his Guard ;) But that nasty Ref interferred in his plan to submit an arm and win in stunning fashion. :D
  2. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    What does UFC 71 have to do with the generic Ke?po video you posted? Are you insinuating that Jackson used Tracy Kenpo to beat Chuck?
  3. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Actually that is your take :confused:
  4. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    Rampage should have sprinkled some crack on Chuck.
  5. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    So now that you've successfully dodged my question and attempted to derail this thread with talk of Chuck vs Page, I will reiterate my question Gary;

    What in that Tracy Kenpo video made it any less craptacular than any other Ke?po out there? Static punch into implausible sequence of destruction. I don't see the difference between that, Villari Kempo demonstrations, Cerio Kenpo demonstrations, USSD, EPAK or even my own Kempo school's approach and technique.
  6. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    That mouth piece, is it something that can not be taken out of the mouth without pliers?

    Talk about a guy who loves to intimidate. Hardly threw a punch and tells CL to come to him. LOL...

    But he won and that is what happened.

    Did you see when John talks to them, Jackson just stares stupidly and nods, Liddell looks at John and nods. Class act.

    I am not that impressed with the UFC, now Pride... Now for the big sales regarding the two Champs.

    I think my problem is you are not out until you are out and done. That is what is touted. Fighting not pattycake.

    I always considered if I was in a fight it is time to really do it. No one is going to help you out believe it. You need to be self sufficient. Rules LOL we got no stinking rules...

    12 rounds of fighting with Talylor and Spinks no marks lol... Pavlik and Miranda now that is/was a fight.


  7. Pacificshore

    Pacificshore Hit n RUN!

    You've clearly missed his point ;)
  8. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I have not dodged, it is the same old KempoFist routine.

    If you feel it is not good and the punching and striking is all done in sparring... I just answered what you brought up not I.

    Not bags, focus mitts, and just standing and slowly striking and stopping the punch. (Drills)

    I believe this is a good one and it is only yellow belt. You really missed a good chance to see some great action KempoFist (Summit) Are you signed to a several year contract and need to keep this up or what?

    Me, I do it because I like to, you on the other hand are bitter and need to see more of life and the fight game, I think.

    [ame=""]yellow belt - YouTube[/ame]

    Chuck and "Page" :p

    You really are impressed with that guy LOL...threw only a few punch's, but yes he won, with the help of the ref. To bad, IMHO... :p

    Derailed come on we are over 200 posts I am the one who brought it back to the clips of Ke?po :confused:
  9. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I took it that BGile was saying that the videos were done well. I didn't see he was commenting on the techniques or how practical they were. Just that the videos were well made.

    Most of Tracy Kenpo techniques, IME, are the "short" forms of more practical application. "Short form" meaning they are generic movements much like kata... most of the underlying principles and details are often left out and must be "filled in" later.


    Moving on the examination of video. I can't tell from the videos beyond them being a demonstration of flow whether the stuff is working or not. The usual way to tell how well a technique is implemented is based on the reaction of uke.

    It seems to me that the majority of these videos emphasize the movements or flow of the tori (the defender) as if to demonstrate a technique in class. Often missing is the demonstration of the movements of uke to protect themselves.

    Conversely, take a video of Judo application, you might see the basic movements of how to do technique, but when you see sparring/randori the emphasis is not on the one executing technique, the emphasis is on what effect or impact movements have on the opponent.

    The opponent does not fall unless unbalanced effectively, etc.

    Back to the ke?po videos in comparison... many of the demonstrated techniques should be blasting right through the target, stunning and unbalancing the opponent. Of course we ALL understand the importance of safety and not maiming or killing training partners, so excellent control is necessary, but even at reduced levels of force, beyond the learning curve, there needs to be an impact on uke otherwise there is no showing or evidence of the underlying principles that make it practical application.
  10. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I asked you about the video, you start talking about Chuck Liddell. I consider that derailment and dodging my question.

    What was demonstrated in the Tracy video is just short of utter delusion. That was not sparring, nor was it anything that could be remotely used as a replacement for sparring. It was defending an unrealistic attack that failed to continue after the punch was blocked, and then the defender continued to strike and beat up what was little more than a mannequin.

    Knowing Ke?po, I doubt it gets any better or more realistic right up through black belt.

    Contract to what? And after watching that video I'm even more glad I passed on the summit.

    I need to see more of the fight game? Though I am bitter....I like being bitter :)

    He only threw a couple of punches because that's all he needed to defeat Liddell. He had figured out Liddell's style, and even Quinton's coach said it would have ended sooner if Quinton didn't respect Chuck so much and double-jabbed like he trained to do. Instead he waited for Chuck to go into his usual routine, and just covered and cracked him in the jaw. Earlier in the fight, he did the same thing but only connected with Chuck's ear. It was just a matter of time before Chuck was dismantled.

    You didn't answer my question as to how that Tracy vid was different or better than any other Ke?po out there. Instead you started bitching again about how you think Chuck got robbed with an early stoppage.

    Completely :topic:
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
  11. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...


    Looked like typical Ken/mpo to me. My USSD instructor looked just like the guy demonstrating. My Villari instructor didn't look as crisp in those movements.
  12. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    You didn't answer my question as to how that Tracy vid was different or better than any other Ke?po out there.

    If what he is doing is typical to you and you think it sucks. So be it :rolleyes:

    I showed it again and felt that the way he was showing the moves with and without a person was good. Also that is what you do on bags, throw some combinations and move and punch and slip, dodge. Train and work on your foot work etc. drills and like I said the other 90% of what it takes to be good at self defense.

    I think we/YOU are confusing fighting in a ring or octagon to what will be good for 90% of a casual encounter. A quick strike or arm control or what ever it takes.

    I noticed an instructor mentioning he has real life experience in fighting, he has had one fight in his life...

    Not the best thing to say if you are a real fighter, but it is good because he is not young and has not been in a lot of fights, that is good, he must be doing something right and the one he was in he won. That is good also.

    The reason I mentioned CL and Jackson is:
    Because it was a single strike that derailed CL and not some takedown or other item you feel is best.

    Robbed, no he did not get robbed he got beat by being hit with a single well placed punch, that I thought was stopped to soon. But now it might be have been the correct thing to do. I would like to see a good interview with Chuck when he finds out and replies to the idea he will have to fight several more players before he gets another chance at the title though.

    Now that is robbery LOL...

    I noticed another stoppage earlier by John Mc. Maybe that was good or bad I am not sure the guy tapped, did you see it? So that is 2 that night the ref decided. Armbar by Din Thomas?

    But I will go along with what Wado is mentioning about the people and the lack of obvious to others. The small saving efforts that avoid life long injuries, so they can come back and play another day.
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
  13. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    The guy stated he didn't didn't look like he tapped either, unless Big John thought that him bringing his hand to try and defend was him tapping. It was a good call...they don't want to have another Frank Mir/Tim Sylvia incident.
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
  14. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Ahh see people? Take notes. How simple a little pressure can bring out the truth.

    I will

    In short, "This is for teh str33t, not teh r1ng with trained fighters." Gotcha.

    What instructor? Where? And why are we talking about him and his lack of "REAL" fights.

    Please show me where I feel a takedown or whatever else is best. Rampage went in there and did what he had to do. If he didn't connect on the jaw and drop Chuck with that, he would have followed up with a combination to finish the job. What is your point? Rampage used straight up boxing basics to overcome Liddell's unorthodox style and stance, tools that he learned that you won't find in your Tracy Kenpo demonstrations and techniques. At least not the ones posted that apparently in your opinion have something to do with this fight.

    Gotta work your way back to the top. If he can beat the next top guys in line, then I'm sure he'll have his shot soon.

    That armbar was solid, and not a moment too soon before the guys arm was gonna break. He was an idiot for not tapping.
  15. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Truth as in True?

    Sure pressure is mounting LOL :D

    Now as far as an instructor I am just mentioning all who do this, do not fight all the time, that is good? Some train and practice and dream.
    Then we have the street and not the gym as in training type stuff.
    In the street you are better to run, or carry a gun :woo:

    As far as winning anymore and gain the top position I hope he rests on his Laurels. If that was his training and being ready for the big fight, he should not go there again IMHO. But better he make the decision than UFC.

    If the arm bar was solid he would have been tapping IMHO...Only he is knowing what up... :p

    Two for Big John, zero for UFC. I won't pay again. But hey, their are many who will.

    I want to see blood, I mean that is what they did in Hawaii, right?
  16. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...


    That elbow was hyperextended. Some people have a lot of flexibility in their joints and won't tap until it's too late. Some fights have some blood...some don't. Too bad they are unifying the UFC and Pride FC rules...Pride seemed to have a lot of blood in their matches. :cry:
  17. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    The ref was in there to see that things were done proper. The fighters are in to fight. When ref's decide the fights like that, it is bogus in my opinion.

    I am completly amazed at how much is said to defend bad calls.

    If his arm is broken by his stubbornnes so be it. He was doing a good job and I think it was another wrong move by the ref. Submits seem to be one of the hardest things for refs to make a good decision on.

    Not that complicated, he either submits or not. He did not submit so the man did not win on a submit.

  18. gmkuoha

    gmkuoha Valued Member

    Kenpo vs. Gracie

    Well, here is the story. This guy is yes, Scot Conway from SD and yes, he used to be one of our students, but it is one of those that fell through the cracks. He was a black belt in Tang Soo Do when he trained for a short while with us. He was terminated from our organization for things that should not be mentioned on thbis forum. He was an excellant forms and weapons person with great kicks, but not street orientated. I was called by Rorion Gracie about 2 weeks before this fight happened and spoke to him on speaker phone with many of our students listening. He asked me about Scot and I told him he would be crazy to accept, as he couldn't fight, but was a good kata person. Would you attack a 90 year old person that couldn't walk? I told him that he was only looking for publicity and his white belts could take him. The rest is history as they took the fight after they learned what I had to say. The tape shows exactly what I said, was the truth...he can't fight and not to bright as he accepted the second round after being plummeled in the 1st round. The fight was considered no holds barred, but it never is, as there are always rules, like UFC, etc. I was raised in Hawaii with street rules, where there are no rules, that is what Kenpo/Kempo is all about...street defense....real no holds barred fights! Isn't that why most of you are training in this art?
    The Truth,
    Grandmaster Kuoha
  19. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Thank you for your insight Mr. Kuoha. You are Sam Kuoha of the Kara-Ho branch of Kempo under Professor Chow correct?

    Curious though, why did no one else but an inexperienced forms competitor step up to the challenge of your school/organization, and if he was so unprepared why let him waltz out onto the mat and jeopardize your credibility?
  20. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Mr. Kuoha: Gracie JJ proved itself in real no-holds barred fights for decades in Brazille before there ever was a UFC. The rules came after BJJ was created so people could compete and not kill one another.

    Your post is implying the Gracies only fight when they are up against a documented loser. That's rubbish.

    Show me a clip of a Kempo black belt beating a Gracie JJ purple or, even more unlikely, a brown belt, yes, no holds barred. Put it in writing and send it to the Gracies, and if they back down to your challenge, you'll have proof, otherwise, you have not spoken "The Truth", just "The Usual".

Share This Page