What builds size is resistance training... you cannot gain size without it, especially not for a woman (women have low amounts of testosterone).... this is a fact. Swimming can strengthen muscles yes, but adding resistance will build more power, so either she's built that way from birth or she's not. Could very well be, but even Cyborg on roids who was ALWAYS stronger than her opponent doesn't look like (I'm only basing this on seeing the fights from a tv screen) she was as big as Rousey. I certainly am not trying to insinuate that she is flat out using something (like 85-90% by many fighters as said by several MMA fighters) just that it always looks suspicious when you are bigger and stronger than all of your opponents.
I didn't say part of it was not skill... but she is stronger than the other women... there's no doubt about it.
Uh, it's also a fact that water offers more resistance to movement than air, and swimming is, in fact, light resistance training. The resistance might not be as much force as other methods, but consider the amount of swimming a competitive swimmer does; ie. a LOT.
Uh, yeah I realize this... however, how many pro swimmers do you see that you would consider huge, muscular guys/girls? I also never said that it wouldn't help, you can quote me if I used that exact phrase. I said it would help... I said resistance is what builds strength... in that you need resistance that causes the muscles to fail at a certain point (lower reps typically).
Nonsense. Is there not some sexism creeping in here? If a man did what she did to Alexis Davis (even if he was more skillful than his opponent) he'd be lauded. If I wanted to show someone what MMA "is", and can be, I'd show them that fight. All 16 seconds of it. I get people don't like her for all sorts for reasons but to deny that she is special is just blindness IMHO.
None. Huge muscles need oxygen. Ergo big muscular people don't get to be pro-swimmers. So people prone to be huge and muscular go and do something else. But swimmers tend to have strong shoulders, crazy pecs and wicked lats. It's utterly conceivable that an early career in swimming gave Rousey those too.
I love how the inexperienced always point to strength when she doesn't actually use any - she is a technique machine I have never yet seen strength and PED's armbar someone Ronda is a fighting machine and one of my favourite active fighters
You must be high Yeah, knowing or hearing, rather, that a very high percentage of fighters are on one form of PED or another would lend itself to susin' stand-out cases. But in Rhonda's case - nah...she's always been a big woman, naturally. I think she competed in Judo at 154 (walk around at least 160lb), IIRC, and then went down to 145 and now 135. I'd read where she went through hell getting down there and had been on a rather unhealthy 1 meal a day diet until wiser heads made her stop that. She's never been a 'roider. Just layers of round woman-stuff.
That is a problem for her legacy though: Its easy to demerit her wins by pointing out the wmma divisions' steps behind male mma. And that's true. But I don't think Rousey would be sucking even if they were at the same level. Would she be as dominant? Perhaps not. She'd probably still be high level. Palhares got far being a one trick pony and he had zero fight IQ and folded easily. This applies to the strength argument too, but people don't seem to appreciate what being an olympic medallist means. We watched Randy (olympic alternate) and Hendo (actual olympian I think?) out wrestle opponents and were unsurprised. People simply said "dat oly wrestling tho" then Ronda starts ragdolling people and its like the fact she's an olympic medallist is a footnote to some other reason she's good.
Core strength is highly deceptive. Wrestlers and swimmers both develop a strength that is not visible outside of the body but is absolutely there. My daughter when she started wrestling could barely do twenty sit ups. We stopped doing them because her wrestling practices were so intense we didn't think she would need them anymore. Recently on break from wrestling for the heck of it we decided to have her see how many she could do. She got to 130 and asked if she could stop because it was boring. Physically she has barely changed at all though some definition is starting to creep into her legs. My son's body shape has not changed at all and he is now lifting his sister up into the air and bringing her down with force. Randy Couture would be an example of someone who comes to mind who has that unseen strength. He never looked particularly big. But he could lift and slam far larger opponents. It's also something that tends to stick with you for a long time after it's developed. I have a friend who wrestled in high school and is now in his twenties and has not worked out in years and still does freaky things like lifting furniture that would normally take multiple people all by himself.
You sir, are easily impressed. Out of curiosity, have you ever trained seriously yourself in either a martial art or in the weight room/anykindoffitness. "Seriously" meaning you achieved a level beyond average participants in the activity.
I am not sure why you are saying I am easily impressed. I am talking about my kids here who both showed serious improvement from the time they started wrestling by primarily only wrestling. I am not even sure why your question is relevant.
I'm asking because of your comment about swimmers/wrestlers having strength that isn't seen on their bodies, which is complete malarky. You went on to use your children as examples, and most children aren't going to gain the type of visible muscle an adult would because they don't have the hormones to build muscle like that. You also mentioned Randy Coulture as somebody with unseen strength. To me that sounds completely ridiculous. I don't see how you could see that man and not think, "he's a powerful dude." :dunno: I asked the question I did because I would have refined my explanation of why your conclusions based off your observations are extremely novice without sounding like a jerk if you had said, "no, I haven't seriously trained in anything." From your statements you are concluding that muscle size correlates with strength, which it does not. That's the type of conclusion an ill-informed and inexperienced person makes. This all ties in to your statement about core strength being highly deceptive. It's not. Core strength isn't defined by how many sit ups you can do. The core is not just composed of the abdominal muscles, but the entire trunk (front and rear) including some areas of the legs and upper body. All parts under constant, serious resistance and strain during wrestling.
I kind of expected this to be an attempt to open the door to personal attack. Which is one of the reasons I didn't take the bait. That said, my point is that wrestlers and people with core strength in general generally are a lot stronger then they look. I am not the first person to say that. I am sure I won't be the last person to say that. And while you said "Not trying to sound like a jerk" you did exactly that. (Particular in your condescending $50 worded reply.) The friend I gave as an example doesn't look to be in shape at all until you see him start lifting and carrying. I used my kids as an example because their cores are stronger then would ever be apparent. And yes, muscles size does not equal strength, which is actually part of the point I was making when I stated that someone's core strength is not always apparent by their size. I used Randy as an example as there are men a lot bigger then him who are likely not as strong as he is. And that is also why I said core strength can be deceptive. Because you don't realize how strong they are. Finally, as the argument was made earlier that you need to lift in order to get stronger and someone ELSE in the thread made the statement that they didn't think swimmers were strong because they were not big, I replied the way I did. Your analysis of who you think I am or if I am a novice or not is just trolling disguised as intellectualism. I don't really care what you think of me personally from your limited experience.
It wasn't a personal attack and I sounded like a jerk because you're clearly avoiding my question (which I asked to provide context for my own post towards you) and being a little snarky about it. You're certainly not the first person to say that. There are a lot of naive people out there. Somebody with a well balanced body is always going to fool the naive into thinking they're "not as strong as they look." It's not because they don't look strong, it's because the person making the judgment has no experience training and lacks understanding on body mechanics.
I have been studying internet debate quite a bit and particularly how these conversations tend to go down. (I am actually working on a documentary about the subject.) and a common tactic is to start looking for information about someone in a debate so you can start making the debate about the person and not about the subject. Who I am or what I have done is not the topic at hand. Hence I am not giving you more information because I don't want to sit here and debate about myself. Again, someone else in this thread said that they did not feel swimming would develop strength. Other people in the thread said they did not agree with that person, and that they found swimmers to be very strong. The other person said that they did not feel swimmers were strong because they were not big or built big. My addition to the conversation was to point out that people with core strength do not always present it in big muscle mass. (In fact, they may not even appear tone.)
:wow: I haven't been paying close attention to most of the posts that are off topic from the Rhonda bit. Your post happened to be towards the end and some of the statements seemed really off to me, which is why I asked what I did. I still think some of your conclusions are off base as well as your statement about core strength being deceptive. However, I have went back and read through all the OT stuff and in the context of the larger conversation going on, I get why you're acting the way you are currently. You're being a bit too paranoid, but I guess I made the mistake of talking to one person in a thread where multiple people are talking about a subject.
