canelo vs angulo ?

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by belltoller, Mar 10, 2014.

  1. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Did anyone see this? I had to miss it.
  2. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    I saw it.

    Canelo won a one-sided fight which ended in an arguably early stoppage. Personally I feel that the stoppage was right on time, because Angulo didn't look like he was ever going to go down and was going to keep taking unnecessary punishment.

    Canelo fought well, I felt like I could see his determination after his loss to Mayweather. His conditioning was alright, but stamina is always going to be a problem for him. Unless he will start fighting with more composure. Sometimes I feel like he'd be better off throwing punches at 80% power instead of the full 100%

    Anyway, I'm already looking forward to seeing who he will fight next
  3. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    It wasn't worth the PPV IMO, so I didn't buy it. I read all about it and wasn't surprised at the result. My brother in law and I debate a lot about how he thinks he will get better and better, but the kids had 43 fights now and once you fight the way you do and have trained the way you do for that many fights you're not going to change. Canelo will always be decent, but hittable which will always keep him 1 step away from the elite of boxing such as the Wards, Mayweathers, Rigondeauxs. He's a good opponent, but if he even has a thought about moving to 160 and fighting the elite there... he will be crushed. Especially against Golovkin.
  4. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    I agree about Canelo getting crushed in the middleweight division.

    But I do feel like Canelo can grow as a boxer. He may have 43 fights, but only a handful of them were at the 'A' level. Age also contributes to change, mostly temperament. Canelo at 30 might look like a very different fighter. There are so many small things he could improve on, 7 years is enough time to make it happen. And if he's one of those guys that can fight until 35 or more, then he has even more time.

    I really didn't feel like Mayweather would be an all-time great before he reached the age of 30. He looked really good, don't get me wrong, but I wasn't expecting him to get as good as he is now.
  5. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Well watch his early days, especially vs. Corrales. Most thought Floyd would be KO'd in that fight.
  6. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    A lop-sided affair, I understand. Picked as a 'return-to-the-ring' for Canelo (as was the case of Pacman vs Rios for Pacquiao) I think everyone foresaw the end of the match - though not the beatdown that it turned to be.

    Canna teach young dogs, as well as the old ones, new tricks? Is that true? A good point, does anyone know of a boxer - whether young in years but well-seasoned as in Alverez' case or an older fighter who may be relatively young as far as ring experience goes - whose managed to radically change, not just improve upon, their qualities or employment of boxing characteristics that send them to 'decent but hittable' to the 'untouchable' elite?

    The hard part is you have to choose an example that isn't obvious, at least, the result of PEDs. Something that can be attributed to the training camp.
  7. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    Interesting topic.


    Well, Maidana isn't elite, but he did really improve when he suddenly started jabbing a lot.

    Trying to think of some better ones...
  8. Madao13

    Madao13 Valued Member

    I remember reading somewhere, that George Foreman, in his comeback, made some significant changes in his style. I am not familiar with his later career, so I don't know if it's true. It just popped from the top of my head when I read belltoller's post.
    Maybe someone familiar with him can comment on this..
  9. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Gatti changed a lot with McGirt, but still tended to revert back to his brawling style when things weren't going his way.

    Manny vs. Marquez. Manny can box vs a slower or limited opponent... once in with a pure boxer you see he reverts back to a double jab, straight left... he's very predictable. Part of that however is Roach is not good at training pure boxers and is better suited for punchers/brawling types.
  10. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    that was also some what? 20 years later? lol He used a crossarm defense which helped him a lot because he couldn't move nearly as well in his old age.
  11. puma

    puma Valued Member

    I feel a bit sorry for Alvarez. A bit like Pacquiao, he was built up into the next great thing. Then, surprise, surprise, Mayweather gives him a lesson. Now people say Alvarez isn't that great after all. Mayweather does that to everyone! I don't think it is fair to really build people up, and then at the first opportunity knock them all the way back down. Before fighting Floyd, a lot of people actually thought Alvarez would win. My opinion of him is the same as it always was. He is a very good fighter. At his age what he has done is very impressive, and I am sure he will go on to beat many good fighters. But Mayweather was always going to be too much. Before this fight a lot of people praised him for taking Angulo. I think it was the right option. A fight that couldn't be considered too easy beforehand, and a fight to get his confidence back.

    I watched Mayweather when he was younger the other night on youtube. He was very aggressive once. People forget that I think. The fact he has adapted his game and after something like 16 years being a champion, is a credit to him and shows great intelligence. The man is a boxing genius - in my opinion anyway. Boxing genius, in real life a spoiled brat maybe, but I try to concentrate on the boxing.
  12. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    To be fair to Alvarez... I didn't think he was that great before Floyd lol. I felt he might be more of a challenge because he was quick, head movement is pretty good, but looking at his resume, the guys best win was over Austin Trout and that's a decent win, but Trout also had NO chance of winning the fight (which I recall being very close) because of the fact that Canelo was being built up to be the next PPV king. Trout beat Cotto (again in a fairly close fight) but I'm really not convinced that Alvarez would beat Cotto. Miguel is no Angulo when it comes to VERY SLOWWWWWW punches. The guy has a lot of power sure, but like my instructor just told me the other day... power means very little without speed and fluidity.
  13. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Yeah, no good having the world's strongest punch but can't ever hit a target. I also think Cotto-Alvarez would be very interesting.
  14. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Cotto brings his A game and has a very top notch training camp and IMO he stops Alvarez to the body.
  15. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    I really think you should give Alvarez a bit more credit.

    Angulo dropped Lara twice and with a bit more luck he would have won by KO. Before that fight and this fight, people were saying Lara would kick Canelo's butt. And now that Canelo annihilated Angulo and made him look like an amateur with no speed or punching power, none of them are responding to my enquiries. :D

    I even felt that Canelo purposely drew out the match because it was going way too easy.

    Canelo doesn't seem like a guy who's going to get dropped by anyone either. Maybe Golovkin, but I can see Canelo never getting dropped and being stopped by the referee or something.
  16. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Canelo was buzzed by Cotto's little brother who came up from 140 lbs. Lara beats Canelo too. Just because Angulo had his timing down right doesn't mean that he would lose to Alvarez. I do give the kid credit.. I just said that I don't think he's as great as people made him out to be pre or post Floyd. Can you name any other big time opponents that he has beaten aside from Trout and a completely and totally washed up Mosley? He hasn't so I wouldn't bother looking. Alvarez would get more than annihilated by Golovkin, would get KO'd by Martinez as well. I have no issue admitting I'm wrong if any of these fights come to fruition and he wins them though.

    Angulo was picked by Alvarez' camp for the same reason that Rio's was picked by Manny's... both were coming off of a loss and needed to get the public talking about them. Both of them are come straight ahead guys with some pop, both are slow and have pretty much zero actual boxing ability. Angulo wasn't going to win and everyone knew it man... come on and don't tell me you bought into the Kool-Aid?
  17. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    No dude, I didn't buy into the kool-aid. I just think it's important HOW you win or HOW you lose. And he straight up destroyed Angulo.

    My next argument, no one will agree with, but whatever. People keep saying how Floyd mopped the floor with Canelo, but I disagree. Or perhaps I just define what happened in a different way. I saw Canelo losing EVERY round, but losing EVERY round by small margins. That's what I saw.

    I didn't see the horribly one-sided fight everyone keeps talking about.

    Canelo never really lost heart either, he just came up short that small bit every time he got close. Which must have been wildly discouraging, but I felt he kept on his game for most of the fight.

    I'm not biased with these fighters either. Floyd has become one if not my most favorite boxer and depending on his last few fights, I might actually consider him to be the greatest boxer ever. Canelo is just a hot prospect I love following and have great hopes for.
  18. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    But Canelo did lose heart... he stopped throwing his jab because he was getting a counter right hand thrown right over top of it. He got tired of getting hit and no matter what he did, he couldn't figure out the puzzle. That was what I saw. Everyone sees a fight differently, but Alvarez might have had 2 close rounds in that entire fight. Also, the problem with Canelo is that he is another fighter that I don't see able to adjust very much in the ring. Now, I cannot compare him to Floyd because of natural talent, experience, etc etc. but I can say IMO he's not the next great thing that people think/hope he will be.
  19. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    If that keeps happening, it's probably smart to stop throwing your jab as much and mix it up.

    Just saying.

    Canelo never stopped trying hit Floyd and his punch output remained mostly the same every round. I don't see in which way he lost heart.
  20. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Great points made by both

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