Can stance work stop a double leg

Occasionally I've argued with tcma guys on line and in person about stopping a double leg or single leg with stance work rooting etc, I'll simply refer to this video going forward as to why that might not work...
United World Wrestling

 

Surely it doesn't need argueing against?
Stance work can help ingrain certain principles that will help maintain stability. The practitioner still needs to apply principles to make them work.
"Rooting" as such won't prevent a double leg, but that's not the point of it.

Perhaps you just keep talking to TCMA people who don't know what they're talking about?

 

I've argued it with people who have trained for years with different arts, some with decades in those arts the sad fact is that tcma can be a closed community with blinkered views, and of all you train against is your own students who don't have the skills to pull of the attack properly then you can fool yourself, I've seen rooting can stop me being picked up arguments, all I need to do is elbow his head argument I'd simply switch to a long bow stance so he couldn't reach my rear leg etc, it's the same as the old my straight punch beats a hook punch argument, maybe if it's your student or a partner who has never boxed or wrestled doing the movement go try it on someone who actually knows what they are doing

 

None of what you've said there is a revelation (also, could have done with some more punctuation in there to make it an easier read).

Any martial artist who has stuck their head above the edge of the trench knows that the CMA community is pretty blinkered, particularly when it comes to the effectiveness of (so-called) "traditional" training methods, an untested theories.

Perhaps if you stop arguing with the closed-minded, and start engaging with those in the CMA who are actively working to improve their practice, you'd have more positive discussions.

At the moment, this thread just seems like a "TCMA are so dumb, they think that blah blah blah..."

 

Don't get your knickers in a twist where did I say tcma was dumb, also where did I say it was with the whole of the tcma crowd?

Please quote where I said anything you wrote above, I said occasionally if it hits too close to the bone that's not my problem is it.

And my experience with tcma is extensive and I have met a number of open minded coaches and some not so open, and I stand by my comments of you aren't happy with them report it to a mod or go do something more positive which won't upset you like this tread seems to be.

 

I never said that you said this - I said this is the IMPRESSION that this thread is giving.

I don't have a problem with what you're saying, I'm just not sure why your saying it the way that you are.

You haven't discussed alternatives, or what rooting is actually used for, you've just said "lots of CMA think this"

I'm not sure where you're expecting this discussion to go, other than everyone agreeing with you?

 

My experience with taiji as a practical art is that it's usefulness is in the training and development of sensitivity and awareness of not only
your own posture/mechanics but the other guy too.

WC is similar in this respect but like taiji I've had to assimilate these attributes into what in reality is a default (kick)boxing style to
be of any use in 'outside' sparring - certainly it can help in close range and clinch situations and give a momentary advantage but that's not enough on it's own.

That's not to say i don't think my arts can be effective as purer stand alone styles at a more developed level. However I realise that sounds a bit of a cop out
and the argument is that there are quicker methods to gain the same results which is a hard point to dispute.

The same techniques of leverage/redirection enabled by relaxation and fine tuning of soft and hard resistance can be (and are) used successfully used by other styles
which have the advantage of training it in a more pressurised context - which is sort of Icefield's point I think.

 

I agree that is what seems to be Icefields point -

alive, resistant training = good

Compliant training, based on untested theories only practiced "in house"= bad

But, since this isn't 1993, I don't see the point in rehashing it; particularly when it just seems to be to point out common flaws that everyone knows exists.
If the people still relying on theory and compliance haven't jumped on the "alive" wagon by now, I don't know how this thread is meant to inspire them.

 

Whenever I've heard the term "root" applied from competent TCMA practitioners it has been meaning good posture, balance, and weight distribution. Anyone who thinks their stance is magically going to defeat techniques designed exactly to defeat that is looney. You can't magically stick yourself to the ground.

 

My boxing instructor used to talk about "planting" more when I punched to get more power. Wonder how similar it is?

 

Pretty darn similar!

 

I have seen this too often also from CMA, there are some good clubs/teachers around, but without trying to make up a statistic, in my town right now I can think of no CMA school out of the many that exist that would train with such aliveness against takedowns to train it, yet would talk about "rooting". (I.e. none train SanDa or any live training with takedowns).

I've heard the same from a boxing coach, I would say it's the same as rooting, a different way explaining.

I think it's unfortunate that too often rooting becomes translated into a magical power

As someone who trained in CMA a reasonable time, I saw it being believed and taught as a mystical ability depending on which coach you had
(Usually the least experienced coachs would imply such things)

 

The difference tends to be boxing coaches can both demo and apply their structure in unrehearsed free form sparring very easily tcma sometimes has trouble with this from my experience

 

Downing the whole mod biscuit tin until you're too heavy to lift is neither chi nor rooting Simon

 

You may, or may not, have noticed that M.A.P is on its last legs as a forum. In my opinion it is asinine threads like this that is killing it off. What was your intention in posting this thread on the kung fu forum? Are you actually interested in the use of stances in kung fu? Are you interested in Kung fu at all? Are you interested in entering any kind of discussion ? or are you simply killing a few minutes by flogging a very dead straw horse? if it is the latter please don't bother, because if you keep going in a very short time M.A.P will be reduced to a hangout for bots and trolls.

 

@Simon you look like you've lost weight! You look in good nick for an old bird

 

Tom, why do you think MAP is on its last legs?

I think many forums (fora?) have got quieter, probably because of other social media. But quieter isn’t the same as last legs.

 

You make a good point about social media. but I do feel its more than that. A good forum can be a community where people encourage each other to share knowledge, ideas and constructive criticism. take the kung fu forum for example, essentially there have been two decent threads since February. I know that highly knowledgeable and engaged martial artists do visit the forum but something is putting them off from sharing ideas. And it is difficult for me to see how threads like this one are going to change things.