I removed that bit because I was focussing on the bit where you said No, NOT the same as above. The following sentence about hobbies, yes, fine, but you were saying that MAP posters are I'm contesting the highlighted sections. Bullshido does not see MAP as "tough guys, full contact, UFC, big biceps etc", which is what you actually said, regardless of the following sentence about hobbies. Umm...no. They believe that martial arts are about gaining the ability to fight rather than LARPing or getting fit, since there are loads of other ways you can do those other things. MARTIAL arts, remember? Yes, there are other things involved and other benefits, but pretending that martial arts aren't primarily about fighting is simply wrong. I've explained why Bullshido doesn't like MAP already. You've just made up your own reason and have closed your ears to all other reasons. Since I've been posting on Bullshido for two and a half years, I think I'm better qualified to state why Bullshido doesn't like MAP than somebody with a chip on their shoulder. So why are they MARTIAL arts? Why not just train yoga, athletics or tai chi in the park? If you train for other reasons then fine, but don't pretend that point-sparring and forms are the equal of hard contact and fully resistant training, which is the delusion that Bullshido hates. If that's what you want to use it for, fine. If you just want excercise, why bother with martial arts? I don't have any statistics, but I bet most people would be taking up martial arts to learn some form of self defence rather than get excercise. As long as you don't pretend that your 360 spin kicks are a great form of self-defence and are just flashy looking techniques...okay. Bullshido posters have said in the past they're not looking to be fighters, and that they just like the tradition and fitness benefits, and they are accepted because they are not being pretentious. It's the teenage shotokan blackbelts that think they can fight because they did well in a point-sparring competition that get flamed.