Bujinkan & Toshindo Clip critique (Split from Video thread)

You seek training from those best able to give you what you need. That is why it is so important to get the eyes to see.

If you do not have the eyes to discern the gold from glitter, then you rely on the eyes of others to set you on the right path.

Not to my knowledge, but I'm sure there is some instructor somewhere who uses that as his basis of something. LOL!

Well, the person teaching is obviously the person "in charge" of the class. I've seen instructors put students on the spot and force them to teach, never once butting in to correct mistakes and letting the teacher teach. I've also seen teachers attend seminars of their students and so on.

Granted, there are a few people out there who think that because they are a certain rank that it is their job to "instruct" while others are instructing. I've seen it in Japan, even, from visitors. The Japanese just shake their heads. I'm of the same response to such behavior. Those people are not common, though, from my experience.

I've had regular students with more than ten years more experience than me, and I've had numerous instructors come to train with me, despite "outranking" me by numerous ranks (on an ordinal scale). The first seminar I ever taught was as a Sandan; I had Judan in attendance and he (gasp) listened to me when I told him he was "doing something wrong."

I think it's a wonderful thing that people are willing to set aside such trappings and just train. That's what Budo is about, isn't it?

This point is extremely important and something that Soke says very frequently. It is important not to be blinded by ranks, or certifications, or menkyo, or any of that junk. That's all glitter. This will become even more important when Soke is no longer with us.

We already see people with certain papers and titles attracting students because the students desire those properties in their teachers. Sadly, there are some much better teachers who are lower ranked or off the radar screen of most. These teachers do not have the sexy papers but their knowledge is incredible!

My belief is that the "good students" find the "good teachers" because they are never quite satisfied with mediocrity. I know people who have flown all the way across the country just to train with someone they had heard good things about. It takes sacrifice to take such actions, but the benefits of those actions are readily visible in their budo.

-ben

 

You can only sell watermelons overnight, you can't grow them overnight.

 

Sometimes a grape is better than a watermelon.

 

In essence, if your rank does not correlate with your ability to fight then you are only studying a martial art. If it does correlate then it would be considered a combat or fighting system. People often dont differentiate and its important for both instructors and students to know the difference. Each has its own value of course.

 

Thanks for the replies, most of the replies were about what I expected, however, the replies to question #3 (see above) didn't quite get to what I was wondering. Let me rephrase a bit:

Do you see people in the organization who "on an ordinal level outrank" people go to "lower ranked" people and become their fulltime students, in an actual longterm student-teacher relationship, as opposed to occasional guest training, seminar attendance and whatnot?

If not, why not?

If so, how does the notion of a "numbered" rank actually apply to relations between students and teachers (and even school owners)?

Is there an actual heirarchy within the organization and if it's not based on rank, what's it based on?

Thanks.

 

Good watermelon tastes good. Bad watermelon tastes bad.

 

Subakdo?

 

I think most people train with an instructor out of convenience, more than anything else. I don't see many people packing their bags to move out of state to be with someone. In fact, I would consider that "a bit too enthusiastic" personally.

Instead, I see people finding the best person (in their mind for what they need at that time in their path) within a given driving distance. LOL! Call me cynical, but humans are a pretty simple breed.

I also think that most people train with people who they think are better than they are. So if someone finds someone nearby them who is good, they will train with that individual. That means that they will probably end up being ranked by that person as well. Seeing how the highest an individual can rank someone is 4th dan (before Soke takes over), there's not a whole lot of wiggle room there.

From 5th dan forward, it's Soke's call. And most people who are Shidoshi consider Soke or one of the Japanese Shihan to be their "teacher" with ongoing tutelage from others through seminars and the like.

I'd like to point out that seminars are an important part of the teaching/learning process in the Bujinkan so seminars should not be set aside as unimportant. This is because there are always people either visiting Japan or visiting from Japan who can keep you abreast of the newest training. I know that the San Francisco area is just oozing with seminars from both types of individuals. That gives those SF folks the benefit of a lot of good teachers, irrespective of rank.

I would also like to add that it *IS* possible for Soke to give you an ordinal rank that is higher than the person you train with.

I saw this happen with an American who became more highly ranked than the Japanese instructor whom he considered his "teacher." Didn't phase that American's training one bit--just kept training with the person he considered his teacher.

Budo has nothing to do with rank; budo has to do with "filling your holes" and "finding what you are missing." That can come from anyone.

I've written about this extensively in the past, but have a poor dial-up connection and don't want to go digging for my past threads. Perhaps someone else knows of the thread on organic networks that I posted within the last year.

Cheers!

-ben

 

I too wonder what this comment is based on. I thought he died from liver cancer. Some kind of cancer anyway.

 

this one?

 

That is the same in life also.
Neighborhood associations always complain about someones backyard, or front for that matter.