Bujinkan & Toshindo Clip critique (Split from Video thread)

So here I am child minding with little to do so i though i'd spend some time on You Tube. I put in Bujinkan and was amazed to find this

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR91Sri3dis"]Bujinkan Israel - Tai Jutsu, Blue Cliff Dojo, Ofer 2006 - YouTube[/ame]

At one point the older chap puts on a defence against a choke the wrong way and then suddenly realises and changes it to the other side.

Not bad for someone of 8th dan level. The other guy is 4th dan and demonstates the kihon with so many glaring errors.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PCEo3DkNCmk

There is other stuff but its too embarrasing to watch.

Gary Arthur

 

is it me or apart from the Japanese, are the western europeans the only ones who get Bujinkan?

 

er you forgot the the septics?

 

no no i didnt!!

 

Watch it!!!!! :woo:

 

Careful Gary, although i totally that the clips you have put up are embarrasingly bad i`m sure if we had a couple of spare minutes we could find something equally bad about Hayes, if you want to throw stones, fine, but they just might bounce back

 

you know i was waiting for you to say that, i could have put money on that...

 

I don't think I've ever seen anything in the Buj as bad as that dude, personally. I can imagine that SKH can at least form a proper Ichimonji no Kamae. I've seen first-time n00bs with better Taijutsu.

 

The defense would work either way. Look at the attackers elbow. The "attacker" is eating the floor regardless of which side the older chap moves.

You are absolutely crazy if you think the Israelis are not "battle effective" in their techniques. I know a few people here on MAP have also trained with people from Israel, and they can confirm that the Israelis are one "bad bunch" (in a good way).

Perhaps we should go find some techniques by Hayes and post them and criticize them. That'd be constructive!

-ben

 

I think it is also very important that people know a person's story, before simply attacking the movement. For all you know, that man could be a survivor of a crippling car crash, and the mere fact that he is moving around is laudable.

I agree that there are lots of holes in the technique and that there are problems on both sides of the fence. I think the individual was just screwing around, and showing stuff. I'd be astonished if he was trying to "sell" that video as a learning tool or anything like that.

Nevertheless, I think it is important that people understand the story. Otherwise, some of these comments could be in very bad taste.

-ben

 

I have vid,s but it takes a very loooooong time to up load at 56k :bang: and thats if you dont lose your connection.

When they finally get broadband out here in the sticks I,ll post them, otherwise I,ll have no hair left at 56k.

 

wahoooooooo!!!!!

this is really bad, look at the fat guy, beverly hills ninja lives!!!

Earth training *snigger* is that you Garth???

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1b_QFYPQqQ"]YouTube[/ame]

 

Nevermind.

 

Ben Cole posted

Except that if you do the defence on the wrong side from a Hon or Gyaku Shime you actually make the attackers choke more effective by choking yourself. The 8th dan on the DVD realised this and so changed sides.

At the end of the day there really is no excuse for this poor level of Taijutsu. Now don't get me wrong, the 8th dan might actually as you say have been in an accident, but on another clip on youtube he starts off naming the kamae and then stops as though he forgets the names but continues doing the kamae. And then the 4th dans kamae are what i would expect of a 8th kyu.

Sorry this may seem like an attack on the Bujinkan once again. But these people do the Bujinkan no favours by posting it on You Tube.

Gary Arthur

 

Ben Cole posted

Just another point. The uke in this clip would have eaten the floor whatever the older chap was doing as he was a compliant uke. I wonder how it would fair on the street?

I too have trained with one of the israeli's, but do you see how clips like this do no good for the image of Bujinkan and ninjutsu in general and just entice people like BJJer to question the effectiveness of the Takamatsuden arts. As I said on an earlier post. Takamatsu must be just spinning in his grave.

Gary Arthur

 

And I thought I was large.

 

Posted by Keikai

Yes but the diffence is that the large guy is a yellow belt with probably 3-6 months training, and has probably taken up martial arts as a way of keeping fit. This is a far cry from being bad when your an 8th dan black belt, or a 4th dan black belt.

Immolation posted

I don't think size has much to do with it. Sure it may mean that you may not be as fit as a young person. but lets not get into pointing out the over weight people in the Bujinkan shall we. And please lets not fall to the level of being insulting to people who have a shall I say larger frame.

Luckily i'm one of those people that can tuck into three meals a day and still keep my weight to thirteen stone, although i do do a lot of training. So no Keikai its not me.

Gary Arthur
www.to-shin-quest.co.uk

 

What a load of CRAP...

To be fair though that must just be some 9th Kyu messing around...

Because really WHY would you put something that CRAP on the internet, it certainly does Toshi dot no favours...

SKH must be spinning in his ...

 

So what grade was the Instructor?

and i suppose thats what passes for Chi no Kata?

 

so why post on the net then? i am a 2nd Dan and there is no way i would put my training up there, god knows why these 4 decided in their wisdom to have a go!!!

why not? Will is a big guy, so is Simon (a bit) from our club but they can still move, this guy looks like he is holding water balloons!!