Yeah it's a decent demo compared to a lot of the BJK crap out there. I just wish the attacker was actually continuing to attack beyond his initial entry. Throwing a telegraphed wide hook then half-heartedly wiggling around to provide "non-compliancy" gives people a false sense of security like that's how it'd go down in reality. I know I know, you guys always say, "This is just training" or "This is a demo" or "This is a drill" or "This is a kata", but when does it ever go past that?
That certainly is the key. Unfortunately at that point, many resort to excuses of needing to "really hurt" their opponent in order for it to "REALLY" work, and that kind of force should only be used in self defense situaitons. It's a self-fulfilling fantasy.
Try to actually answer. You said "but when does it ever go past that?" In a video showing training, what do you expect it to go past to? You seem to be criticizing something for not being what you want it to be--whatever that may be. Please don't act like identifying a TRAINING video as training is an "excuse." Here's what it seems you are saying: That training video isn't demonstrating an actual fight. Right...because it isn't a fight--its a training video. Surely you understand this, so why criticize something for what it isn't. That's like criticizing an apple for not tasting like an orange. BudoStudent
It's not a criticism of the video perse it's more a criticism of the lack of vids of what we saw in that vid plus more resistance.
If that's the case, does that really serve a purpose...after all these posts? Do people out there think there is some bank of videos people are just refusing to post? I will tell you this--if I find a video of a real fight--which is what this thread was overtly about, then I will be sure to post it. I really will. Otherwise the posts in this thread are nothing more than a variation of "You don't do what I do, so you suck." That's fine, but I think that opinion is pretty much understood by now. BudoStudent
No, the complaint is that there isn't a bank of videos of that. I think a lot of people would be pretty happy with some sparring vids of the Buj. Even if it was done in a fashion with Uke and Tori, if the Uke was actually resisting throughout the movement.
I would say its a significant improvement over 99% of videos seen (including Hatumi). It is unscripted. It will look messy whenever you go live but would you rather being a good looking corpse or a messy alive guy. The attacker however showed little real aggression and gave up way to easy but its still better than most. Being two healthy looking you males I dont see why they dont put on some gloves, helmets and body armor and really check themselves out. Another thing needed is offense. The best defense IMO against weapons and multiples is offense. Not having a strong offense really limits your ability to defend yourself optimally. Otherwise good show....as the brits say
So...non BJK people are upset because BJK people don't video tape enough? Well, now you go and prove my point...you want to see BJK videos done in a way that you think they should be--'resisting throughout.' Honestly now...do you really think people (who openly state their dislike for BJK) have any constructive reason for demanding videos of real fights (what this topic was originally about--or more specifically "BJK in Action." I think that a lot of folks just want more material to criticize so they can "prove" what they've already decided before this thread ever started. And hey--bless them for having an opinion, but no one should be surprised that people aren't going out of their way to fill a request with such obviously insincere (my opinion) intent. That TSD video was put up--why not discuss what it actually shows. BudoStudent
It's not like I'm alone in seeing the compliancy BudoStudent. I don't see how one video is that hard to get if this is a common occurrence. It's not like you have randori once a lunar eclipse or something.
Nope. I'm saying that whenever people post videos, it's always the same thing. Slow, compliant, scripted to both uke/tori, etc. Yes, we're all VERY aware of the training methodology of the Bujinkan. We've seen the demos, the kata and the drills. When we ask for a more adequate video of taijutsu being used against resistance in a sparring type training environment, we get videos of 'randori', which is just scripted sparring. When we criticize it, you guys say, "Dude. It's just a demo of the technique", as if to imply, "We spar full on ALL the time, THIS video is just a demo". I'm asking, "When do we get to see more than the same old crap we've been seeing?" and hearing less of, "EVERY member of the Bujinkan who spars, can fight, and has good taijutsu, is conveniently NOT on youtube." Lets see how easy this is for BJJ: 1. A slowly taught explanation of a technique with uke compliance for the purpose of teaching the technique: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Q5qJjXMO4"]YouTube[/ame] 2. Two white belts sparring in class as part of their training. Both are attempting to apply a submission on each other, while both are attempting to resist submission. This is done live and unscripted, one or both probably have other goals in mind besides submission, such as working on their sweeps, positions, etc. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm1DnSwqAs4"]YouTube[/ame] 3. A competition, where a BJJ student would compete against other people to test his/her abilities: Gi based: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrligH0dmFY"]Dave Thomas Open BJJ Comp - YouTube[/ame] No-Gi [just to throw in two children training with more intensity than most of the BBT vids I've seen]: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntj00UIvg6c&feature=related"]2/2/2008 EGO Tournament Nash Boys GUILLOTINE - YouTube[/ame] 4. Reality based fights involving BJJ or BJJ principles: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkyIZiKOK64"]Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Street Fight - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s5iDzgIRng&feature=related"]YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIn3nQbobtE&feature=related"]Jiu-Jitsu vs Kung Fu - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9cXGX0wxrk"]YouTube[/ame] As someone interested in learning what BJJ has to offer, I just presented you with four different perspectives, and this is just off you tube and I had MANY more options to choose from. We just want to see you BJK guys get past the first option. That TSD demo posted above was the closest I've seen yet, and it's still scripted to an extent. The guy attacking CLEARLY isn't reacting realistically to having someone grab him, and don't give me that whole "he has no balance" crap, because he's not even trying to regain his balance at all. Like I said, squirming around to make it seem like he's "resisting" doesn't count. I really don't understand how difficult this whole thing is. As a martial art "born from war and battle tested", you'd think hundreds of thousands of these ferocious warriors would be able to produce at least one remotely decent sparring video.
I see two possibilities. A) The people you are talking to have no interest in making videos of their training (that's me). B) If they have videos, they aren't going to post them to be ripped up by people who are demonstrating hostility towards what they do. BudoStudent
I like how this only applies to people who train correctly, as it clearly isn't true for the mountains of people who don't train correctly in the Booj.
Here's a third - I see people wrestling for submission after pretty much every training session, so I'm not that desperate to see others do it online.
Did I imply BJK spars all the time? I think you know this varies place to place, and it is fair to say that Sparring is not the highest priority in BJK. You know this because you've experienced it--correct? So, why act surprised and indignant for not getting what you know isn't likely to be there. As far as YouTube...I have never put anything on YouTube...for any reason. The world doesn't revolve around YouTube...or at least I hope it doesn't. I trust you mean IF I were interested in this, I am mildly I suppose, so, thanks. If I want a demonstration I will watch some of those. You are also projecting what some people have said onto a lot of people who haven't said that. I've never claimed to be a ferocious warrior...I don't recall anyone else saying that here, but I could have missed it I suppose. There's something else. You've stated many times that you trained in BJK. As such, do you really require someone to post videos to educate you? Of course you don't--you've said you trained in it and determined that it isn't good, or at least isn't good for you. I stated to others that I have zero minutes (of video) of me practicing martial arts or fighting in a real fight...ZERO. From my perspective, I don't see much purpose for it. Why it is so hard for anyone to understand why someone WOULDN'T have that is what confuses me. BudoStudent
Did I make mention of people training correctly or incorrectly? If I understand you, it seems you are implying that the demonstrations that do exist on video (that aren't good) are representative of BJK in general. So...you don't think BJK trains well? Is that all? Does that matter to you? BudoStudent
