I don't know exactly how to respond to your post as I am not able to locate the program I was referencing. As far as a "high protein" diet I can't respond to that either as the focus of the meal seems to have been vegetable rather than animal and I cannot say for sure what balance was taken between protein and carbohydrate and fat. For myself, I would be wary about assuming that the diet was "high protein" as the use of protein to the exclusion of fat and carbohydrates has its own peculiar risks. Despite the iconography and totemism of eating animals after the fashion of predatory beasts, the digestive system of the Human is actually more closely associated with the sort of tract one finds in grazing and foraging animals. I'll continue to seekout the program I mentioned and perhaps you can locate a copy, watch it and draw your own conclusions then. FWIW. In the meantime, here are articles regarding the same excavation in Turkey that the TV program was about. http://www.archaeology.org/0811/abstracts/gladiator.html http://www.murphsplace.com/gladiator/gladtimes.html Best Wishes, Bruce
Unfortunately, no. There are any number of threads that have gone round and round about this but the answer breaks done this way. a.) CHOI Yong Sul taught YAWARA, the precursor to what we know today as JIU JUTSU. We don't know a whole lot about his instruction, but it is known that he returned to Korean through PUSAN in 1946. He attempted to teach his material with little success until he crossed pathes with a Korean who was experienced in Judo, one SUH Bok Sub. Master Suh helped CHOI to develop an organized syllabus, introduced gradings and added various skills that rounded out Choi's curriculum. The art came to be known first as HAPKIYUSUL and later, with the addition of some kicking, HAPKIYUKWONSUL. b.) JI Han Jae (SIN MU Hapkido) is generally identified as the first person to use the term "hapkido" and the term has since been applied to many varieties of Korean grapplings which include throws, joint-locks, kicks and strikes in varying degrees. c.) The term "hapkido" has since come to be used to identify a host of arts which vary in the practices noted above as well and varying numbers of weapons. d.) As far as using the term "hapkido" to identify practices prior to the Japanese Occupation, there are an entire range of terms that have been used, abandoned, adopted, modified and made-up. Even the current practitioners of HAPKIYUKWONSUL through both the JUNG KI KWAN and the YONG SUL KWAN are known to use the term "hapkido" even though technically one could make a case against using the term at all. FWIW, Bruce
haha wow, you may not know it but you remind me greatly of myself. I used to couldnt stand BJJ. I had nothing against the style itself, just hated how they gracie's marketed it as the "most effective style". now Im going for my BJJ blue belt. I even made a post on MAP sometime ago entitled "my problem with BJJ" just like you. I, like you, also new nothing really about the art. you see much like yohan said its just the fanboys of it, who never train in it who elivate it to its god like status. However the reason its regarded so highly over other style is its training methodolgy. many schools (especially TKD's ive been at ) make you go through a whole color chain of belt systems. memorizing tons of techniques, katas, and unrealistic weapons, and have sparring as a secondary. in BJJ fighting is the focus at all times. true its the fighter not the style but the way BJJ is set up it teaches you to fight through the simpliest way. "by fighting" the same way boxing, muay thai, and kyokushin karate does. (this is why i hate when people call them sport stylesits not sport, its just smart) it also capatlizes on an aspect of fighting severly looked over in most other martial arts to this day. Groundfighting. this is why you have guys who may be a green belt or blue belt in Karate and will get trounced by a 3 striped white belt when they spar. This is by no meens not to say that the karate or TKD guys are incapable of ever winning. i have seen BJJ guys get knocked out cold on multiple occations. you are very hard press to find a Mcdojo BJJ school. compared to the treasure trove of karate, ninjutsu, and TKD's out there. It has proven itself time and time again, against practicioners from tons of other styles and has been more succesfull then many other arts. this is why its brough up so much. especially when talking about grappling. because this is what it speciallizes in. its the same as how guys bring up muay thai alot when refering to striking arts. at the end of the day who cares. one thing MMA has taught us( by the way BJJ and MMA are different entirely. No offense, you probably new that, but people calling everything BJJ/MMA kinda is a pet peeve of mind) is to not focus so much on what this technique came from, or pledging to abstain from this style because i train in this other style. Everthing has its place and if its training you to be a more complete fighter who cares. I dont here alot of hapkido in the BJJ forums but if it works and you have something to add be my guest. And you should be the same.
Me too, it was like a politican explaining that no, pre occupation arts were not called or directly related to hapkido.
While I can't quite put my finger on it, Fusen, the tone of your post suggests that you have some particular axe to grind or hold as particular view of things. Were that the case I can share, right up front that its not my position to rain on your ideological parade. What I have found is that the Koreans, themselves, have played pretty fast-and-loose with labels and terms and practices. A well-know example of this is the matter of TKD people attributing their practices to the same material that the HWARANG warriors practiced. Never mind that we don't know what the HWARANG warriors did, or why. Never mind that various historical researchers have disproved this theory. The myth continues to turn-up in TKD materials right along side of knocking people off of horses with jump kicks or breaking horses legs with spin-kicks. And, yes, contrary to your comment, all Korean practices are related to one another one way or another. The only place I find these standard facts coming under discussion is where someone-not-korean makes a statement about things Korean and gets called onto the carpet for it. The fact is that people find it "fun" to believe in such nonsense and get annoyed at being reminded of the truth. In the case of your postings, there appears to be some note of annoyance that I would use the term "hapkido" to refer to pre-occupation practices. There does not seem to be much annoyance---- (knowlege of?)--- "hapkido" as a modern made-up word or its general acceptance as a generic MA term by Koreans and Westerners alike. The term itself remains undefined in any single universally accepted manner. In my experience in the last 30 years I have identified at least 8 terms used to identify armed and unarmed Korean practices. The Koreans seem to be pretty liberal about their use. By comparison, Westerners seem to be committed to using select terms to denote specific practices. In my own personal experience, I have found that there is no pleasing all folks all of the time. If I use a term too liberally I will draw fire, and if I use a term too conservatively I will draw fire. And, there does not seem to be too much interest on these forums for finding Middle Grounds and agreement as there is no "fun" in that. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
I liked the balance in your post. Like you, I have more of a problem with marketing and attitudes than any of the technical aspects of the subject. The BJJ people need to at least be credited with conserving the groundwork formerly found in traditional Judo and enhancing it with practice and experimentation. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
That was also such a good post. Mr. Sims, I'll be paying more attention to you in a very positive manner.
Thanks, but I also must admit to a kind of "hidden agenda" in that response. As I mentioned, the BJJ people can be congratulated for conserving a good deal of the original groundwork, including pins and chokes that were removed with the coming of the "Olympic movement" that resulted in Judo being accepted into the Games. Rather than be distracted by posturing and attitudes, I would thoroughly enjoy a decent discussion of some of this material sans the modifications of the last ten years or so. Just a thought. Best Wishes, Bruce
I think one may be projecting a little. also I have no hidden agenda, only a dislike of the obscuring of historical truth for political ends. FWIW much of what makes any training programme worthwhile (which is what a martial art is) is not the actual techniques, but the methods by which they are trained.
Agreed....but now how do we get people to understand this simple premise and to act on its behalf? As far as I can see the MAP forum is one of the better venues available and even here the bickering far out-weighs intelligent and productive exchange of views and information. Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce
Well, a good first step would be to figure out just what "ideal" training methods are. It seems to be a concept that has eluded a lot of people out there.
You took the words out of my outh...er key strokes. Ideal methods would be like discussing "ideal" cars, men, or women.
Actually, the subject of cars isn't that bad a parallel. People like different kinds of cars for different reasons: a classic collector would have a very different idea of the "ideal" car than would, say, a Nascar driver. To determine what the "ideal" car is, we must first define what purpose the car will serve. Just like everyone has slightly different purposes for their cars, so to do most of us have different purposes for our martial arts training. Inasmuch as a martial encounter involves real, unrestrained physical violence, an ideal study of martial arts meant to prepare for such a situation should attempt to emulate it as much as possible. That's the philosophy behind the training in BJJ and MMA, and that's why these pursuits tend to produce superior martial artists.
Still the "ideal" car is subjective. The "ideal" car amongst every day drivers, the "ideal" truck amongst truck owners, the "ideal" car, like manufacturer is NASCAR, are still with the confines of personal preference and not warranted in the sense of perfection or ultimate
That's just what I was trying to say. However, except for a few very specific exceptions, I think we can all agree that the ideal car should be able to drive down the road. In a similar way, we can probably all agree that, with few exceptions, we all expect martial arts training to prepare us for martial encounters.
