Boxing,kickboxing and Thai boxing.

Nice to meet a fellow Canuckistani! (although I am a UK expat but I don't think anyone has noticed....)

I don't know him unfortunately. Trevis Chandler represents my branch of JKD out your way, and he is based in Hamilton

 

OTE=warchylde;1074959293]As Hannibal said "attributes", there are no absolutes or such a thing as superior techniques full stop just superior attributes, this whole thing if he does this I'll do that and then this and then that, my coach would never entertain because it always happened, it became kinda disrespectful and he would simply demonstrate by knocking the person out and that would turn hypothesis into an answer. what works today against someone may not against someone tomorrow so on and so forth, in regards to effectiveness I have always boxed but you see I've also done Filipino boxing and kickboxing they destroy your weapons kicks or punches, so that example of the teep; well who cares doesn't really matter....you're not working on the principles and concepts but "scenarios." I'd catch his foot with my teeth and bite his toe lol[/QUOTE]
I'm using too many examples to illustrate my point I think.

That principle is I am more vulnerable for that split second I commit to something,giving examples may be pointless, and you 2 sound like you have a lot more experience to reference,but this has never let me down yet in or out of competition.

 

Yet

 

Yep,I've got no ego to attach to it,if I ever find that principle doesn't work I'll accept that no problem.

In fact that would be great,the idea I could fully commit to anything with no tactical or technical downside/increased risk, I could just steam through my enemies like the juggernaut.

 

Most of what I was trying to say has already been said.

My point about speed does not discount raw speed, but rather brings awareness of a more practical definition for speed, and that is time allowed for adjustments. I should have maybe used the term fluidity rather than speed. People generally have time to make adjustments during transitions. The bigger the transitions between techniques, the easier it is to counter those transitions. The shorter the transitions, the harder it is to counter. The transition between hands and feet is very fluid. There are three ways to shorten transitions and thus make your techniques seem faster:

1) Start your next attack as part of the follow-through of your current attack (efficiency of motion, creating torque, leading with the breath, proper pivot points, compound attacks, etc. all come into play here). It helps to think of all movements as circles or spirals, it is just some (like a straight punch) are much more elongated circles. Constant motion.

2) Apply constant pressure (this is used a lot in BJJ and other grappling arts). Basically you have points on the body to apply pressure and you transition smoothly between these points so that there is no time for the opponent to counter during the transitions.

3) Stunning and unbalancing the opponent. By stunning and/or unbalancing on contact, you can take away the opponent's ability to counter during the transitions between your attacks. Also under this category is to confuse the opponent so that they hesitate or cause them to have internal conflict.

The point about range and speed is not about raw distance, it is about effective distance. A knife is always faster than a punch, for example, because the effective distance a knife must travel is very short. It takes almost no movement for a sharp blade to cut to the bone. I've got a scar to prove it. When in most close combat situations, first the gap is closed and then there is separation, and then the gap is closed again. This closing and separation, repeated over and over again, is how most combat goes. Rarely ever is the exact same distance maintained, unless someone is running away. And the separation could be feet or it could be only in inches.

So now we come to Thai boxing. The distance is closed, a kick can be used to close the distance and a kick can be used when separation begins. All of this with the hands engaged and you can throw in the knees and elbows too. So why is this different than TKD, because Thai boxing is close range kicking. You will get hit with kicks at close range or knees if you close in more.

The best way to counter kicks in the ring is to use footwork and angles. After you get the footwork and angles down, then it makes it much easier to stop kick and even catch kicks. If you don't move on the good angles, good luck trying to do a stop kick against a good kicker, they will just test you out a few times and then catch you flat footed, IMHO.

The amount of time to angle off at close range is small. So you might think Thai boxing is slow but mostly it is more conservative. The movements are in inches rather than in feet. Small angles.

If you don't think Thai boxers care about angles, look how much they pay attention to their stance. The specifically stand certain ways to present or be more open to certain attacks while being in a better position to defend against other attacks. Of course it works the other way too, they stand certain ways to make is easier to align for attacking in certain ways too.

 

O.K you are vulnerable, scientifically when anyone attacks they are at their most vulnerable because when you commit with any technique you will leave an area of your body open, in and earlier thread i mentioned about jigsaw and pieces and how different disciplines like kickboxing muay thai and savate fit different parts of the puzzle to make a part of the picture. when you punch you naturally leave the body vulnerable etc. if you block or parry you leave an are open due to the forearm not being long enough to protect the hipline and the head at the same time.

Thats why you have ABD,ABC,HIA,SAA,PIA and the concepts of an offensive defence and vice versa.

you see principles always work or they're not a principle. Techniques do or don't work

 

Totally agree with Wado, great economy of motion in Muay Thai, in fact all the full- contact styles you see them slightly more settled & quicker, in the light continuous and semi contact its more speed, literally tripping on them selves with what could be considered ineffective (to ko) techniques. Benny the jet in a early point fighting competition went aggressively to score, his opponent fell back and lifted his arm, even though it was totally ineffective it scored. That was why Benny the jet gave up point fighting and was moving into boxing, then kickboxing came along....

 

I find different kickboxing styles negate others if the exponent knows how to...this is because generally most camps and disciplines train only to fight the "same" to elaborate in a muay thai camp they train to fight muay thai, in kickboxing they train to fight kickboxers. In savate they train to fight savate in karate kung fu etc etc. It's when the individual decides to go and experiment that they really get to understand the essence of what they are doing.

I started kickboxing about 1988 after a year, my coach who ushered me to a muay thai club to develop further and then savate ( I had to travel 80 miles twice a week cos there was only one savate club in the whole uk back then). He was a high grade in kickboxing and jujutsu so I trained in jujutsu aswell. Then a guy from toronto came over to the uk who was an inosanto and vunak student and got involved in the malay and filipino arts. olympic wrestling and fencing.
So as much as you can look at A art there's always an Art that negates it you have beats and half beats, timed and counter timed, thats when it gets really interesting

 

I wish I had found Savate sooner, but better late than never!

 

This and the fact the fact that you can't react quickly once committed to a big shot were pretty much my point.

I understand we can do certain things,angles we attack from,feints etc to prevent a counter,but if you can read what your opponent's plotting you could stop what he's setting up at the right moment which would be when he's at his most vulnerable.

Some thought provoking posts,thanks.

 

Hannabal "I wish I had found Savate sooner, but better late than never! "

you know that brother,

Now you see i have been training for only 25 years but what i have seen is many martial artists through-out the years practice and stay the same throughout their whole training and teaching career, I might go to see them after 5 years and its still the same. Or there are those very few who have continuously progressed and evolved not just changed and added something new but really evolved and kept it challenging and interesting.

 

"Everyone has a plan until they get hit" Joe Louis