Books on internal part of the (Yang) Taijiquan???

Very cool OldYang, I'm still waiting for you to write your book on your experiences and practice someday.

 

Maybe.

 

I received the books.
What can I say? I didn't find in these books what I was searching for! :-(
- "Taijiquan: The Art Of Nurturing" - A good overview on tje TJQ training! But nothing that is not written elsewhere.
- "Classical Northern Wu Style Tai Ji Quan" - The book is mainly about the (Northern) Wu style TJQ form. It is a good book about TJQ, but nothing special if you are not interested in the Wu style.
- "Chi: How to Feel Your Life Energy" - A beginner (this mean that no experience neded to begin practice with this book not that not contain advanced informations) guide for Qigong. It has useful information, but the book could be better.
These are all very good books but I didn't find nothing new in them! They are anothers place-tekers in my library. OK, I rate them 5 od 5, but none of them is essential and highly recommended.

 

Hi oldyangtaiji,
Do you know exactly what you are hoping for from these books? Can you put it into words? My own experiences of people talking about the "internal side" has been that everyone is very vague, mysterious and unwilling to talk. This has prompted me to believe that they either:

a) don't know what they mean themselves - they're just passing on the same vague nonesense they were told and never really understood

b) are hiding something shameful

I can't remember for the life of me who said it, but someone once described getting to the top of a mountain only to discover that there was nothing there. Just a thought. I genuinely believe the whole mystery has just been stuck on top of an otherwise bog-standard martial art, you know. The question is, when you discover that for yourself, will you go on perpetuating the mythology, or speak out against it?

 

Few days ago I received the Bruce Lee's Fighting Method book series. :love: :Angel:
I must say that I found in book "BL's FM vol. 2: Basic Training" in the chapter "Punching Power" more (useful and practical informations) about "internal energy" (they call it "Flowing energy") than in the majority of the IMA books!!!
I highly recommend the to anybody who is interested how to add "internal power" to the striking! Very useful.

However in the last years I began to train also in Jeet Kune Do, Ki Chuan Do and RBSD systems. I am interested about the "internal energy" that is useful for real combat and I don't like chinese mysticism and (false) secrets about it. The Qi exists and anybody can use it for fighting and healing!!! There is no need of long years of practice IMA with an authentic "Master". OK, it true then more than you practice more Qi you will be able to use, but you can use Qi VERY quckly and you don't need long years of practice!

 

That's because qi is a metaphor for physical principles which can be learned.

The classics describe releasing power like arrows from a bow. Arrows transfer both spinning / drilling power (caused by the flights) and a sine wave / undulating / whipping power into the target (the shaft undulates in flight).

These are real physical principles that can be re-produced with body mechanics and like an arrow hitting its target, we learn in Chen style Taijiquan that the most explosive power comes when these two kinds of energy converge. I know some people call that qi and others (including me) physics, but the two things are not mutually exclusive, providing the qi people can stop insisting that qi (in its martial context) is definitely NOT physics.

 

I like that!
You struggle all the way to the top to find that there was no treasure after all...
In the meantime you've learnt to climb mountains!
Cool!

 

I found that in Aikido are more practical and useful exercises to practice the use of Qi than in TJQ. Some their (Aikido) books clearly explains how to use Qi. In TJQ all talk about "Secrets", but nobody how easy is to use Qi. In Aikido they show you how to use and feel Qi in the first lessons, meanwhile in TJQ there are practicioners than after years of practice can't use it!!!
I don't understand why the TJQ community made this a taboo theme??? There exists very simple exercises to use and understand Qi, but they are not teached in TJQ.
What made TJQ an Internal Martial Art if there is no Qi (internal part)? This is tha main reason that today TJQ is dieing as a MA and becames ONLY a light aerobic exercise.

In my opinion Yang Lu Chan trained TJQ as a Marial Art with practical usage of it. Today TJQ is mainly practiced as a "health" exercise. Masters and instructors of TJQ teach only the external part of it! Today TJQ is mainly NOT a Martial Art and there are (only) few masters that mastered TJQ as a Martial Art. The majority of TJQ practioners (in my opinion) don't learn TJQ properly (efficiently).

When I asked around on various TJQ forums, many practioners answered that they don't believe in Qi and that in TJQ is "all" about body mechanics! What? There is no Qi!? And how the "power" is generated in TJQ? TJQ without Qi is like dance! Anybody who don't know to use Qi in TJQ, has no chance to use it as a Martial Art!

 

What do you mean by qi and do Western boxers have it, or are their punches "like dance" too?

 

I said about "internal" MA (TJQ), I was not talking about external MA (boxing)!!!
In external MA there is no need for Qi practice!

 

Why?

 

So what do western boxers have instead of Qi to generate their power?

 

They're called muscles. Everybody has them.

 

But Tai Chi people don't use them?

 

I never said that. You asked how boxers generate power, and I told you.

 

OK.

In response to this:

When I asked around on various TJQ forums, many practioners answered that they don't believe in Qi and that in TJQ is "all" about body mechanics! What? There is no Qi!? And how the "power" is generated in TJQ? TJQ without Qi is like dance! Anybody who don't know to use Qi in TJQ, has no chance to use it as a Martial Art!

Someone else asked this:

What do you mean by qi and do Western boxers have it, or are their punches "like dance" too?

To which they said this:

I said about "internal" MA (TJQ), I was not talking about external MA (boxing)!!!
In external MA there is no need for Qi practice!

Ignoring the subsequent:

Why?

And wanting to consider the difference in the generation of power that the previous exchange raised, I asked:

So what do western boxers have instead of Qi to generate their power?

You probably know the rest.

One of my understandings on “Qi” is air or oxygen, and also the same air or oxygen that has undergone “transformation” or “alchemy” in the body and is then put to use. One such use being in the contraction of muscles. I wanted to know whether this concept of the use of Qi is considered different to that originally referred to.

 

Oh - you'll never get a straight answer out of 'em

 

Fact is if qi is relevant, boxers have it too and even in the internal harmonies, li(strength) is right there on the end, so I'd say yes, Taiji fighters have to use their muscles. The differentiation between so-called internal and external fighters is an unfounded implication of superiority on the "internal" artists part. Oh dear, here I go again...

 

The way I distinguish internal and external arts (without going into an argument about qi, etc.) is that in an external art, you learn specific ways to move, e.g., a boxer learns specific types of punches. An internal fighter changes the way he moves in everyday life to correspond with the needs of the art. Through training, his body moves naturally the way it needs to in order to generate the most power out of every movement.

A world class boxer uses his techniques and motion skills in the ring. A Taiji Master uses them in daily life, whether it's walking up the stairs or tying his shoes.

External arts are performed when necessary. Internal arts can't be turned off.

 

There are so many different ways people explain what they mean by internal.

Edit:
I've heard that internal uses energy whereas external uses force; internal uses tendon and ligament strength whereas external uses exterior muscles...

Adam Hsu addresses the issue in his book "The Sword Polisher's Record"

He goes on to write: