I am curiouse how one should tackle the issue of Body Language when instructing Women . Everyone agrees that carrying expensive jewellery etc in certain area can attract attention. I am referring to the issue of clothes etc. I mean no one wants to hurt anyones feelings etc but I think some clothes can get a women in danger. I am not saying that it is a good think if this happens, but one has to be realistic ! Your ideas pls.
phew - glad i got here first before u received some major flamage! basically your asking for tonnes of users to scream: 'Woman have a right to wear what we want!! and if i wear something i feel comfortable in, and is fashonable, then it is by no means me asking to be raped, and not my fault. grrrr!!1' Factually, a third of the UK believe that if a woman is raped, it is partially or completey their fault. Disgusting, but not without its reasoning. Of course woman should have freedom, and flirting with short clothes in a bar is by no means an open invitation to be taken advantage of sexually. The rapist is morally responsible, always. Having said that - I don't think it's worth risking it, yes you should be free to wear and act how u want in public, but unfortunately there will always be those who will see it as provoking and have urges to rape. However - I believe becoz it does happen, there's no point in risking it for a reason like 'its fashionable and sociable'. I'm afriad that though you should have right to do so - you still should wear revealing clothes infrequently to decrease the risk. Becoz it does happen - quite alot im afraid. It's awful, and a burden on your free will - but that's life unfortunately. Better safe then sorry i guess.
I agree neb - in this day and age almost every women is now aware of her position and appearance and what it may preclude. I totally detest the way some parents allow their children to wear mini versions of adult clothing. Its unfair to expect children to behave and "look" like adults. To this end you can't blame ignorance on what you wear to being raped any more. Too much has been said in the papers and on the telly. If you want to wear such clothing do but always go out in a group or with your partner and use a registered cab to get home if your going home on your own. Its not difficult - its quite good commom sense imho.
Women will be raped with clothes or without clothes not trying to be funny. It's true like melanie said it's not really what one wears that provokes it. Could be her hair colour, or she's alone, or it could fantasy the rapist wants to act upon.Unlimited possibilities.
And the fact that 2004's statistics showed that more than 2 thirds of recorded rapes were from people they allready knew.... not strangers who just drank to much and were in a sadistic state of mind. But people who new you, planned and executed their actions. So i suppose ur only safe around ur closest friends.
I dont feel so here as there are times when rape is cried and not factual. In reality people do cry rape when its not so and an open mind needs to be kept. There has been a case in the media of a rape case being chucked out of court as the girl could not really remember (through drink) if she consented.... Nuff said. I think there are some cases when someone has set themselves up to invite trouble the same as with any given self defence situation - walking home through a park late at night is a danger for guys as well as girls and common sence steps should be taken. Yes people are raped and dont deserve it but also people are acused of rape and the signs are not clear (was he morally responsible - only as responsible as the girl). Rape is a tricky subject and I hope I am never accused of it as even if your aquitted that kind of sigma does not go away.
60% of rapes do not end in any prosecutuion at all! and as far as statistics since 2001 are concerned, it is estimated that only 18% of rapes in the UK are reported.
1) There are unfounded rape reports. According to NIJ they are no more common than unfounded reports for any other violent crime. 2) The 2/3 of rapists are acquaintances of the victim is low. The FBI estimates are closer to 90%. Even that may be an understatement; stranger attacks are more likely to be reported and easier to prosecute. Now, on to the more substantive points and a dip into the hidden conversation... If you were interested in body language's effects you'd talk about carriage, eye contact, the set of the shoulders, facial expression, voice, keeping or giving up space, aggressive vs. assertive vs. passive body language and other things like that. The fact that you don't leads one to believe that you really haven't given the subject much thought. You aren't talking about body language. You are talking about clothes. In particular, you're saying that women should avoid certain clothes because it will make them more likely to be raped. The only thing you mention is jewelry. There might or might not be touch of class animosity here. Lord knows I've got more than a bit of it myself. That's neither here nor there. The point is that you've focused on one of the least important aspects and the one that has the least to do with the subject. Why is that?
Excellent post! While I can never sympathise enough with the countless number of girls who have genuinely been subjected to such a despicable crime, people often forget about those guys who, for whatever reasons (ie. a jealous, vindictive ex-girlfriend, a drunken teenager who "slept with the wrong guy", or even a wife who regrets her infidelity the night before), have been falsely accused.
There will always be cases where people are falsely accused. And it seems to me that the legal system does the best job it can with sorting those out. But to assume or suggest that false rape accusations occur with greater frequency begins a troubling trend. Such a trend can easily return us to a time when the victim feels as if they are as much under investigation as anyone else. - Matt
Should they not be under investigation if they make the claim then they should be factual in it and under the same oath as the accused. This is a serious allegation and I am really pleased it has never been leveled at me but it is one of the few things that would really freak me out so they should be part of the same accusation as the accused. Even if you are cleared of something like this the stygma is not easily shifted.
Back to the Self Defence course, I agree with most of you that one of the best defences for Ladies is awareness and precaution. Avoiding being alone esp. at night and avoiding certain 'shady' areas can be the best defence. I am currently doing a Women SD course and my students are already showing improvements in their flexibility and awareness. i try to include short explanations (so not to sounds boring!) about these facts.
Try again, incubus. Most rapes occur in the victim's home. The next most common site is the attacker's home. You're still thinking of stranger-danger in a dark alley and ignoring the real risks. It's turning over rocks to look for goblins while there's a bear standing on the path. How is their aggression and assertive body language coming? Are they putting their bodies into it when they hit things, or are they still reticent? What changes have you noticed in the way they carry themselves? Have they stopped thinking of ways they can change their behavior that will make them less sexually attractive and started concentrating on how to stop the criminal from doing the crime? Is the emphasis still "how come" or is it "how to"?
havent read all the posts but....... as for as the whole wearing the wrong clothes get you raped, i think women should be taught what to wear when doing certain things. like if your jogging in the forest alone, dont wear cloths that outline your butt, show your stomach or shows the crack of your boobs or even makes your boobs more noticable. on the same note, if your going to the gym or a public park then wear what you want. it is logic like this that i think will help the most. i know i have my opinions about what type of combat self defense is best for women raoe defense, but the stuff that teaches you how to completely avoid the situation will work the best.
I wonder if we might need to separate harassment from rape as although one is a degree much worse than the other, both are concerns for women. I knew of one attractive young woman that would dress in baggy, plain looking clothing when traveling by bus cross-town at night. No make-up, no purse for someone to grab, stocking hat, no perfumes; she almost could pass as a guy. However, when she was with friends and going out, completely different and there was very little doubt she was hot. She did not have a problem with this, it was not like someone was forcing her to be someone she is not or to dress differently, she dressed differently for safety. She basically knew that she would get harassed by guys and so she had adjusted her life to minimize the possibility of harassment. Her first concern was to not get harassed by people. As far as the chance of rape, no matter how she dressed, she always had pepper spray with her and avoided drinking heavily. I knew other women that rode the commuter buses and they would dress in whatever they wore at work, plenty of make-up and perfumes, short skirts during the summer. They wouldn't get harassed because they were on commuter buses where everyone is either going to work or back home from work. I guess what I'm getting at is that dressing more appropriately for the context can definitely affect the possibility of being harassed by members of the opposite sex. If this also lowers the chance of being raped, all the better. I just don't know exactly what impact the clothing someone wears directly impacts rape. It does, probably, but I could not say exactly how or how much. So I stick mainly to what I do know, women can lower the chance of being harassed by dressing more appropriately for the context of where they are at and who they are with. I also don't completely agree that rape is always about control. In society there is a line that one should not cross, at least without proper consent. In my opinion, a man that would date-rape, obviously has some issues with going way too far without the proper consent from the woman. I don't know if this is as much an issue of control over women as much as a pattern of addiction. What I mean by pattern of addition is that the date-rapest could trigger into a pattern in the same way that a drug addict does when they need to get high. They lose their ability to care for the feelings and rights of others and instead only care about themselves and getting that one thing. So if a date-rapest brings a drunk women home, has sex and gets away with it, that might start the pattern and they will continue to do that because it gets them what they want. If he fails to rape, he might say he is sorry and seem all sincere, so then the woman might forgive the attempted rapest... guess what, that's the pattern... the date-rapest does something bad, succeeds or fails, says he is sorry, then he gets a second chance (is forgiven) or he dumps the women like it was her fault. Then at some later time, with the same or different women he tries to rape again. They have not changed... just like a drug addict. Like an addict, they won't be able to stop on their own until they are caught and forced to stop. As long as they aren't caught or if caught they are forgiven, the addict will very likely continue. This is just my opinion. But I feel women could do some justice standing up for each other and not giving men second chances. Force date-rapest to realize there is a line never to cross without proper consent and until they have the self-control to never cross that line, they will never be forgiven. Just some thoughts.
Think of it more as a continuum of bad behavior and ignoring boundaries. It can be to harass, to dominate, to force sex, con, or something else. If the students learn to recognize the aggression and the strategies the offenders use to gain control and how to stop them it doesn't really matter what the bad guy is after. Frankly, I don't care what his deep-seated motivations and desired outcome are. Psychiatrists could have these clowns on the couch for years and not know. It's like the 1970s typologies of rapists - control rapists, sadistic rapists, insecure rapists, sex-seeking rapists, blah, blah, blah. The only important one is "unsuccessful rapist" and by preference "dead rapist".
