Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by Agutrot-, Sep 28, 2006.
I would hazard a guess that you aren't part of one of the larger brazillian associations then?
Honestly I don't know how large it is - Nova Uniao. Not sure what difference that makes?
Hux is correct, it's not this complicated. Most of the time the time at a particular belt is on AVERAGE 2-2.5 years. So the stripes help denote this skill difference among the same belts. And there is no commercialism, I don't know of any BJJ academy that charges for the stripes. I also think it helps at tournys too. If you are like a 2 month white and the first match you have you get tapped real fast, if the guy has like 4 stripes you know he very close to blue belt level.
My instructor is very laid back about training elsewhere, UNLESS you are a fighter under him. Usually TMA instructors are more 'closed door' types than BJJ guys.
What part of no charge for testing is commercialism?
this has been answered many times in this thread. You show up to a tourney as a white belt with 3 months of training. There may very well be other white belts there with 2 years of training. The organizer wants to pair you up with a fair opponent. He/she is better able to do this by looking at yer belt.
That's one scenario.
The guy that actually tests us for rank flies in from Little Rock. He can know pretty quickly who should be able to do what by looking at tips on the belt.
There's another scenario.
Yer looking for something that just isn't there, brudda.
You have a white belt division & a blue belt division & a purple belt division etc in Tournaments sub divided by weight. There is no white belt one stripe division or purple belt 3 stripes division (at least not at any touney I've been too)
I'm not looking for anything (honest :Angel: ) Just debating why I see no purpose in belt stripes.
Perfect example. I live in Austin. We fly a BB in from Renzo's in NYC to do our promotions too.
Guys, I've just done some googling...(bored at work)
Maybe its an American thing? I couldn't find any information on stripes being used in Brazil & I think fewer people over here in the UK care about stripes on belts...but then we don't have the extent of access to BJJ schools that you do. There are some great instructors, but for years we had few quality black belts (although its getting better & more common to get black belt tuition)
Perhaps "you guys" (gratuitous sweeping statement) have more desire to mark your progress regularly than elsewhere? Or because of the competition being freely available the instructors/clubs need to regularly mark progress to retain students?
I'm not talking about divisions, I'm talking about fair matches. There is always room within the division to pair up as evenly as possible. Nobody wants to enter a tourney to get matched with somebody who may not be in the same league as them, get submitted within seconds and go home. The audience doesn't like it, the competitors don't like it, nobody wins. It's to everyone's benefit to make the matches as fair as possible. Once you get down to the top competitors, tips go out the window. If yer org isn't organizing things this way then perhaps you aren't in a good org? Shrug.
that's fair enough, just recognize that it's being explained quite simply and thoroughly and yer choosing to ignore the explanations, it seems.
Sorry, I really don;t mean to be rude & whilst most of your points are well made, that is nonsense.
Does that really happen?? You are suggesting that tourneys in the States are organised in such a way so in the early knock out stages the lower striped belts are paired up & so are the higher striped guys, thus eliminating half of the more experience better fighters & allowing half of the lower ranked guys through to the next round for fairness!?
Yes you have explained clearly. I am not ignoring your answers, I am saying I see no reason for stripes. I could equally say that you are ignoring my points for why stripes should be unnecessary.
Difference of opinion - hey, that's the internet for you!
nah, I'm not takin it as rude. No worries.
first off, let's be clear here - I don't know about "tourneys in the states" - I've only been to a couple of local tournies run by local promoters. They were open competitions not endorsed or sponsored by our org. I can't speak for the US as a whole.
But the short answer is yes...otherwise the rank beginners got no reason to compete at all. I am also describing a scenario where there are enough competitors to do this...if there aren't then yer rolling whoever shows up within yer belt. At some point yer gonna have to roll a more experienced guy anyways.
ya, that's fair enough
Speaking of losing fast and then being done, double elimination tournys are good for getting more mat time for your money. Even if you have an off day.
The stripes are a good represntation of progress and a helpful tool for grappling after class. Your arguement has no merit.
"Why use any belts at all? In the street it doesn't matter if you're a different belt color."
It's all relative, but if it makes you feel better we can pretend stripes are there own belt promotion, happy now?
Its an opinion, not an arguement. There is a difference.
In what way? Do you take them off & tape up your opponent? Are you practising a new form of hojojutsu?
You're right, but I've met people from Scandinavia, Australia and Germany that use stripes. I think even some Gracie Barra clubs now are doing stripes.
I can see where you're coming from, and I don't ever want any stripes, but I have seen the stripe system working well in a school in Australia.
They had a really well structured training system and turned out some world class grapplers, but at the other end of the spectrum, they had people in their fifties turning up without doing any sport for twenty years and they had turned them into reasonable grapplers within a couple of months.
Bearing in mind that these people hadn't done any other martial art (as is often the case in the UK with people who start BJJ- half of them have got a black belt in something else) and given the fact that it would take them longer than average to reach blue belt, I think it worked very well to give them a stripe when they got half way there in terms of rolling.
Overall, I agree that its nice to think that we don't need trophies and medals, but they can be a useful tool to mark achievement and push people on.
yes, GB Bristol uses stripes...and also charges for gradings!!
Agreed. And that's what I mean when I say BJJ uses them in a commercial sense - ie. to keep students focused, and keep them training & ultimately spending their money. Whilst I appreciate that these clubs are businesses it puts BJJ a step closer to the "learn a technique - get a tag" mentality of many traditional arts.
Let's hope that they do continue to be used appropriately & accurately as a lot of you guys are suggesting
This one time I taped my opponent's bikini line. You shoulda heard him scream.
Blech. Now I see where you're coming from. Let's hope they stay an isolated case. I frankly don't even like the idea of a BJJ grading.
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