BJJ slamming vs wrestling slamming

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by roninmaster, Nov 30, 2014.

  1. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    You're simply incorrect. Please show video of a high level match where someone scores in this way.
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    This is the nub of it.

    Like I said earlier I think it is a silly rule, but it's a rule and so it is what it is - but I still find the rationale a bit awry
     
  3. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I don't watch bjj to think of one off the top of my head and I'm not going to trawl through youtube trying to find a high level match where someone jumps guard without the other either jumping themselves or already attacking. I'm going off what I've been told by my instructor, my head instructor, have seen in comps and have both scored and been scored against by doing it.

    Granted, none of those comps were anything special, but I would say how rules are enforced at the rank and file comps is more important than what happens at the worlds.
     
  4. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Well I think that's where we differentiate. I think it's a good rule. Although all those other wrestling slams I would gladly see in BJJ.
     
  5. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    I'm really puzzled about this, I've simply never seen or heard asserted what you're talking about. Can you show me any match of any kind where this is scored?
     
  6. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    That's completely not the nub of it, the rules were invented to serve a particular purpose in the martial art. When they don't do that they should be looked at.

    If as some people are saying in this thread they're completely arbitrary and sufficient in themselves, why argue that they shouldn't be changed? If they don't mean anything it should be all the same to you?
     
  7. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I actually can't. Not in my youtube channels' videos anyway. I'll have a look at random ones for a bit though. Although while reading the rule book I did find out they introduced a timer for 50-50 guard so that was nice to see.

    edit: Given up looking. Every match with guard jumps is either off a takedown, or while both are collar and arm gripping. Found one video where the guy grabbed the legs on the way down but couldn't see the ref or the scoreboard. He won, but not much else happened so whether he did get points, an advantage, or the ref gave it to him for having top position I don't know.

    Adding to the funny things though, there were a decent number of white belts jumping guard and immediately getting knee sliced and that was fun to watch.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Because it is now so ingrained in the sport as to be almost perfunctory. Like 30 seconds newaza in Judo

    It's the rules - you don't compete in boxing and complain you can no longer execute a cross buttock or that you have to wear gloves, but that doesn't stop you finding the rule unnecessary
     
  9. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    Depending on the age group there absolutely is submissions in Kids Judo. And while they do try to stress and score points for position in kids BJJ you can still win by a good number of chokes, arm locks, and arm bars. Some places stop the match as soon as the arm bar is in position.

    And while they do straight wrestling no gi, and will end up doing no-gi BJJ, I don't feel that BJJ blends very well with wrestling. It has a different "feel" and attitude. When my daughter does submissions now she still moves like a wrestler. BJJ practitioners tend to move very slow and are not very aggressive at that age.
     
  10. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    From the AAU wrestling rules:

    Kids 11 and older can do chokes. Kids 15 and older can do arm bars.
     
  11. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQU8Nnr1tDE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQU8Nnr1tDE[/ame]

    My daughter is the one in the wrestling headgear. Her training partner had done BJJ and competed for a year.

    Every Catch Wrestling coach I have talked to has told me that they agreed with me on the topic that Catch doesn't move or feel the same as BJJ, gi or no-gi. And while you can't use many of the Catch submissions as a kid safely, it still makes more sense to me for my kids to be able to learn what catch submissions are safe and develop from there, rather then learning to move in a way that is unnatural to them. Double Wrist Lock (Kimura), Figure Four, some of the Catch Style Chokes, etc could all be part of an overall game. In NAGA some of the leg locks would be legal too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  12. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I have to ask, are your kids aware how much you share their videos and have you asked their opinion on it?

    edit: Also, teach her not to cross her feet when she has someone's back :p
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  13. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    Yes. I get in a great deal of trouble if I don't bring my video camera. Last summer my daughter was learning freestyle and during free wrestling pulled off this amazing textbook bodylock throw. And of course it happened when I was fumbling with my camera and I didn't get it. I heard about that for months.

    Just last night my son was finally getting his Fireman's Carry down and he asked me to video tape it and upload it. We were almost done so I refused but he was really dissapointed.

    My kids both claim they want to be stars someday. I will be satisfied with them just being able to protect themselves, but they both have dreams and work very hard for them.
     
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Slams, pulling guard and bjj In mma.

    [ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wAZ9y0tpBXw&feature=share[/ame]

    Pretty much textbook......
     
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

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