If you can teach me how to "bake noodles" , I'll offer to tutor you in Spelling Oh Freeform where are you??? Hope that Basil Faulty is no longer in your vicinity timmeh!! Although I took only a few Akido classes .. I'm finding this thread pretyy intresting
I call them like I see them, besides no martial art has all the answers. I have a great appreciation for Aikido, but saying that you can fight with Aikido after just a few years of study is as bad as saying that a few years of karate will teach you how to grapple.
I'm letting "pretyy" go Kick chick........ Freeform has been informed of 'the other' misspelling.... Moley's gone home - and after thrashing my PC to within an inch of its life with a ring binder I'm feeling very much better thanks! After AikiMac battered my head earlier on and Martialartsnob' comments: ("I have a great appreciation for Aikido, but saying that you can fight with Aikido after just a few years of study is as bad as saying that a few years of karate will teach you how to grapple.") My own thinking is that I agree with Martialartsnob and AikiMac in so far as I do Aikido so as not to fight, I can see the areas where it's weak, especially without more than at least 5 years+ experience, but that is also it's allure. I've done my fair share of striking arts and know enough to get myself out of trouble, the lure of Aikido was/is that if someone is so unbalanced as to want to attack me I have the capacity to immobilise and restrain without causing too much injury. The young Machismo's talking about on 'the street' fail to take into account that one punch, kick or whatever, can paralyse or kill - it might be the strike that kills, but it's more likely the concrete the attacker hits his head off as he falls. I'm sure Mr Humm has met a few of those guys in his old line of work. I'm 6'5'', played rugby form the age of 5 to 18 and am well aware of the damage I can cause another person, which is the other magical lure of Aikido (Shodokan is all I know), Tintin is our Sensei - about 5'6" (and three quarters ....), there's another girl there I can pick up with one arm, but on the mat they can both take my balance and throw me round like a rag doll - to me that kind of skill is very appealing and I want to learn more of it. Martialartsnob, I also agree with and that's why as soon as Freeform hurries up and comes back to Edinburgh I'll be taking his submission fighting class as that's an area I feel I have very little knowledge. Tim
Due to paranoia about spelling... 'misspelling' was checked against the micrasift spillchucker... Don't know what your saying about the 'its' This from the guy that shakes the ketchup when the top's off (I'll never stop laughing at that). Blended that day, eh?
No need for formalities Tim, just call me Dave. The fact remains that regardless of what martial system one studies, a student will not be equipped with adequate skills to effectively fight without several years of dedicated training. Yes I do agree there are many systems which lend themselves to a faster way of developing "street" effective skills however, let me ask another question, and please be honest with yourselves... How many here (Aikidoists) actually study aikido so they can walk confident in public knowing their equipped with an effective method of 'fighting' ? Or in other words, they've learned aikido so they can fight ? I have in all my years of study only met (less than) a handful of students who actively wanted to use aiki technique because they felt threatened in life. Putting aside the social issues of violence that we all know exist, actual physical assault (which is random) is relatively uncommon. Let’s forget alcohol, domestic and antagonised related incidents, how many times do we walk down the street to witness a fight ? In my 38 years, I've seen this twice. I have lived in the East end of London to Scotland and in between. I often read comments relating to fighting and *if aikido is truly able to deal with physical conflict. I say it's down to the individual to study hard, understand the difference in training and "doing" and be prepared to accept the responsibilities in law for their actions. Tim is exactly right in his quoted words above, but the harsh reality is that whilst I am still here to tell my 'war' stories I have sustained injuries (some of which quite serious) resulting from dealing with people who have nothing to loose through their actions (no rules that bound their actions). Unfortunately I am of the opinion that a large portion of the aikido community has a glazed sugar coated opinion of their aikido which, they feel will protect them when the time comes. They may be right, after all it all comes down to raw ability and luck on the day however, rest assured injuries will occur regardless. This brings me back neatly to the point of this thread, if aikido (in general) is being taught as a passive system it wont work in a non passive situation, it won't matter how much the student relates their study to O-Sensei's later ideology of "harmony" or "love" if they have absolutely no experience of practicality the truth is going to hurt. Literally !
20 Years Of Aikido? Big Circles hurt, Little Circles hurt - but quicker. When in agony from a cracking good technique and your Sensei tells you that the first 10 years are the worst - don't believe him. Pain to Brain is just as quick - you just learn to take it better. The first 20 years are the worst.....? Keep going long enough and you realise the whole shebang is one big circle, eh?
Techniques are circles, spirals and spheres (Westbrook and Ratti: Aikido & The Dynamic Sphere is brilliant). Life's the same - to Buddhists anyway. I could explain it better but I'd need to be sober..
AAhhh I see, I hope you are in a different time zone as It is a bit early to start drinking from where I sit. I agree, from DNA to the galaxy and everything in between, its all circles, spirals and spheres. Now pass the bottle!
Yup - it's nearly 8pm here in the UK. Of course alcohol and aikido never mix. Following a very exhausting training session, I once was asked to take a (anonymous) VERY high ranking Japanese sensei to the pub and was told he was a strict Buddhist and teetotaller. What did he order? Beer and whisky chaser of course! Personally, I try to drink, think and train on different evenings, but sometimes...
I myself am an aikijustu'ist so I am not sure my senitments count but here they are. Do I feel more confident in handling a physical confrontation since I started training? You can bet your bum I do. Did I explicitly start training for this very reason? No, but I would be lieing if I said it wasnt a factor. Do I look for opprotunities to test my abilities in a real world environment? Hell no, it still hurts. My instructor once told me what really seperates good martial artist from bad martial artist in regards to a street fight, is the ability to deal with large amounts of pain and maintain your mental presence. Because odds are you're the one who is going to get struck first and it is probably going to be a big surprise, not to mention very painful.
I’m not saying anything about traditional vs. non-traditional. (But I am fond of traditional martial arts.) If I want to fight someone, the ol’ jab-cross-hook combination is hard to beat. Simple is good. I ought to start working the bags again. Maybe practice my knee kicks again, but keep it simple. A few punching combos, a few kicks, and strong arms is as good as you’ll get. That’s not the sort of material you get in an aikido dojo, because aikido is not about fighting someone else. Yes, aikido can work “on the street.” I sincerely believe that it can work. But my belief is that if your goal is to fight someone else, then you’d be much, much happier learning boxing combos in a boxing gym than learning 18 different kokyu-nages in an aikido dojo.
Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu? That is a battlefield martial art. Your instructor is right. Pain and damage are different. In the UK, the best path in a fight would be to: 1. Minimise but accept and ignore your own pain as far as possible 2. Minimise your own damage (injury) 3. Minimise damage to your attacker 4. Optimise the pain inflicted on your attacker - enough to stop an attack, no more.
Close, its Dai Yoshin Ryu Aikijutsu. Unfortunatly there is no Daito Ryu available here and Dai Yoshin Ryu is VERY similiar. The origins, or lack there of, of Dai Yoshin is subject to skepticisim. So skeptical in fact I am pretty reluctant to talk about it. However, its principals and techniques are very close to daito ryu (which would be my first choice) so Ill take what I can get. Now you want to talk tradition, daito ryu is where its at. None of that new age aikido stuff..... Im only pushing your buttons yall
I'd like to add, (given something I've just read in another thread) I'm not suggesting that aiki"do" is or isn't an all singing all dancing martial art. I fully understand and empathise with the ideology of "modern" aikido, however, there does seem to be the (wrong IMHO) attitude amongst some that aiki"do" isn't a combative system just because the founder altered his philosophical outlook following the second world war. The actual differences between Aikijutsu and Aikido are finite, one might actually put this down to the ideology on the student.. To hurt or not as the case may be. The exact same can be said of Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido (another of my disciplines) the way of the katana is to kill. After all that IS the purpose of the blade however, I don't cut anything other than air when I practice but... I could *IF* I choose to. The sword doesn't kill or mame... The person does. Aikido techniques don't break joints or immobilise.. People do (Granted with the skills taught to them known as aikido) When we work with an attitude of co-operation all the time, it is natural that our bodies and minds will become conditioned in this way. That is human nature. My analogy of "Big Circles" is a way of describing this form of training. As stated earlier in this thread, big circular movements help develop the foundations of our technique, this is because they are open, easy to see and easier to practice when other bits and bobs are being learned however, the student should always be looking to reduce the dynamics of one's movements thus, the technique becomes quicker to execute. Everything however is relative to the speed and commitment of the attack. However, as I've said before, big (slower) movements which are ultimately more circular by nature don't work effectively against attacks which have linear intent and have some degree of effort behind them, it's basic physics.. (unless of course you uke is being compliAnt)
I could not agree more, a tend to group do/jutsu/and jujutsu together now as aiki. In the jutsu training Ive noticed alot more emphasis on atemi, economy of motion, and we play a little rougher but that goes along the lines of the "im going to hurt you" mentality. I wholey agree with your sentiments.
This has no doubt been said before, but it's just occurred to me... Aikido could be viewed metaphorically from the point of view of being in a whirlwind or whirlpool. when starting Aikido and going through the kyu grades your movements move in larger circles until your body gets used to and also battles with the ebb and flow of the current. With time and effort your naturally drawn in, you start to 'feel' the eddys, flows and currents, you stop battling against them. A certain amount of relaxation due to body memory starts appearing, smaller circles make more sense. Towards the centre things speed up and time slows down as you've been there many times before, until, I suppose, Aikido nirvana appears, you're in the centre watching the circles move around you with virtually no effort on your part. Off to grow my hair and purchase a flowery VW van
What is the term that Aikido uses for this idea? Isn't it the name of a island that is protected form the storms because it is surrounded by natural barriers? It was many years agos so it is a bit foggy......Shikoku or somthing?
As a conclusion to this thread, I'd like to thank everyone who contributed their thoughts and opinions.. Greatly appreciated. Regards
