Big 12

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by bodyshot, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Hey Guys, I posted my clubs BB test a bit ago and had some intresting feed back, some people thought it was great and some thought it was not so good. Anyway I thought it would be just as intresting to post my groups selfdefense material and see what you think. We call it the big twelve. attack
    2.Knife attack
    3.wrist grab-single/double
    4.lapell grab-single/double
    5.bum rush/double leg
    6.bear hug-front/rear
    7.head lock front/rear-standing/ground
    8.rear naked choke-standing/ground
    9.defend punches/two handed choke while mounted
    10.defend simple judo throw/sweep
    11.defend sizzor lock/triangle choke
    12.defend a hair clutch.

    Some of you guys will get this some of you wont but anyway there it is.
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    A bum rush =/= A double leg.
  3. Kave

    Kave Lunatic

    I would be interested in hearing what defenses you use, not just the attacks you defend against. I think that would be far more informative. I would be particularly interested in the defenses you train against wrist grabs and lapel grabs.
  4. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Small circle Jujitsu basically, does that mean anything to you or am I to vague.
  5. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Not sure I know what you mean Chad.
  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Nice one, are there videos? :)
    Eh, a bum rush is just where someone pushes you forward, crashing into you and hopes that you fall over. A double leg is a legitimate takedown that has calculation and actual skill to it.

    Sort of like the difference between a drunken haymaker and a hook to the head.
  7. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Very well put Chad, well there trained during the same block of instruction at my school and our bum rush is less like a shove and more like a bear hug and our double leg is a double leg. just to make clear our bum rush is almost like running straight at some one and open field tackleing them lols its pretty damn violent because it ends in a body to body suplex if not defended properly.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  8. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    a bum rush and a double leg are massively different techniques.
    double legs aren't tackles, they require off balancing/kuzushi from off balancing with the deep step then shooting through the opponent.

    a bum rush doesnt require the same off balancing as a set up or the complex foot work and follow through.
  9. Kave

    Kave Lunatic

    Yup, that gives me a rough idea. I trained a bit with a small circle jujitsu guy (not in a formal sense, we attended the same HEMA club), so I understand the concepts. I prefer the punching to the face defense if someone is stupid enough to place one or both hands on my lapel, but small circle jujitsu grip-breaking stuff has its place (it is definitely a more restrained option).
  10. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Hmmm....Very good Zaad. Yes again I repeat, they are trained during the same block of instruction.
  11. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    My club uses/talks about/trains a few different approaches to these common grabs, for the most part escapeing is the goal but sometimes it isnt.
    The small circle escape is implimented usually, but the spear hand and palm heel is often used in combination with say a knee or front kick, some times its executed at the same time.
  12. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    There are some videos of my club but there twenty plus year old left overs from back when we advertized in blackbelt magazine which we did for like idk twenty plus years...Im thinking about makeing videos though and am looking forward to working on that in about a year actually right about the time I get my black belt.
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Yep - i am friends with Prof James Hundon you know ;)
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
  14. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    Is the rear-naked choke fixed when you start your self-defense technique? Or is it more of "he is TRYING to get me into a rear-naked choke?"
  15. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    I dont know her, and have only met one small circle jujitsu guy I just happen to train with him lols. Your cool though Hannible always thought you were pretty intelligent.:cool:
  16. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Its trained both ways, with and with out resistance. Also we use the rear naked choke during sparring matches, its always been vieewed as a legal method of winning a match.
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Whoops! - James Hundon (i fixed my typo)!

    (intelligent but cant type apparently!!)
  18. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    I just wanted to post our self defense material, it actually includes alot of jujitsu, Im not really sure how to kick the conversation off so thats why I just posted the list. Any questions or comments are welcome though.
  19. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    I think was asking for the defense techniques themselves so I will try to list a few additional things here. attack-evasive footwork/secure and maintain control of weapon incapacitate attacker.

    2.knife attack-same as above.

    3.wrist grabs-work against thumb to break hold with circular motion/strike to incapacite attacker.

    4.lapel grab/sleve grab-foot work/small circle grip break/strike to incapacitate/block strikes/throw or sweep attacker/defend throw or sweep.

    5.bum rush/double leg-foot work/block,jam the attempt/strike to incapacitate/clinch or choke attacker/traverse for better position.

    6.head lock front/rear standing/lying. strike to soften/create room to breath/break attackers grip/sweep to regain feet

    7.bear hug front/rear block the attempt/evasive footwork/strike to soften,incapacitate attacker, counter sweep attacker/break attackers grip

    8.rear naked choke standing/lying create breathing space, strike soft targets,eyes/break attackers grip/sweep,regain feet.

    9.Defend punches/two handed choke while mounted-blocks/break grip/strike soft targets/sweep to regain feet/gain superior position.

    10.defend judo throw or sweep-Foot work, break grips,strikes to incapacitate/counter throw or sweep.

    11.Defend sizzor lock/triangle choke-escape guard/create room to breath, sweep to regain feet/strike soft targets/ gain position to strike. clutch-break grip, strike to incapacitate, sweep or throw/

    Thats the jist of what we cover, theres a bit more to it than that but thats the general Idea so far.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
  20. Kave

    Kave Lunatic

    Your rear naked defense and triangle choke defense sounds pretty bad. In fact, most of the techniques as you have described them do not sound wonderful. It might be awesome, I could be completely wrong. What it sounds like is that you could do with adding a bit more contact and resistance, perhaps if you have any local hard-training sport gyms nearby you might want to try them out.

    I'm not saying you should quit your current art, just that you may be well served by adding another art to your training for three months. If you could find a boxing gym, kickboxing, muay thai or mma gym nearby and try training with higher levels of resistance it may give you new perspectives on your current training, and better tools to judge the syllabus and techniques yourself. A BJJ gym (with a history of competition successes) would definitely give you the tools to assess the grappling, such as choke and headlock defenses.

    Locally we have gyms that offer couch-to-ring high intensity 3 month programs that end with a corporate or inhouse (smoker) fight against people going through the same type of program, if you have anything similar available I would recommend it as a great way to get a quick taster of a sport art.

    I'm not hassling your current art, just saying that a brief period of adding training in a different type of art may allow you to develop a fresh perspective. Good luck with your training, it sounds like you are enjoying it which is the most important thing.

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