Best knife defence?

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by idols11, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    As a guy who trains in Kali I do a fair bit of research into what knife attacks looks like. This is the first time I have ever heard about lateral slashes being prevalent attacks in the US. I am decidedly skeptical about this, the overhead downward motion is such a ingrained primal motion that I cannot believe that it isn't a popular attack.

    Can you find some video examples of what this attack looks like, I can find many for the overhand knife attack, I have never seen a lateral slash.
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I cannot post many videos because they are pretty graphic, but even a casual glance shows how prevalent the "slash" is

    Statistically i have found the "uppercut" thrust more common than the downward strike, simply because most people take that grip naturally. The false grip/ice pick grip is less prevalent, although there still exists a ridiculous myth that if you see such a grip "the guy knows what he is doing"
  3. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    I agree on the uppercut, but the distinction that 47MartialMan made on the lateral slashes seemed odd. The same downward overhead motion is used on slashes as well, particularly with larger knives, so is what you have seen lateral slashes or downward ones?

    I just spent a half hour on liveleak looking for an example of a lateral slash, didn't see one. Admittedly the footage from the US or Canada was pretty rare. Saw lots of overhand and uppercuts.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Oh I see what you mean

    The "Windmill" is the best way to describe it....clean lines are very rare!
  5. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Whilst I agree, coming from someone training in Kali and that overhead downward motion is such a ingrained primal motion....everything in my findings, is not.

    I have seen the lateral slash, the upper hand and forward thrust to primarily the gut or chest (on one occasion to the face) used in bars and streets.

    Oddly to also state, a fair amount of knife related violence in my findings, were between people who knew each other

    I have also spoke to police and EMTs on these, they did not report any overhead downward thrust (Attacks-Incidents-Injuries) when I made my inquiries
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  6. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Would be appreciated.

  7. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    I will make some inquiries again of my LE friends, see what there experiences say.
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Blindside - by "lateral" I assume you mean angle #3 or angle # 4 correct?
  9. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member you may have read my post (#140) that gave a reiteration....those were my findings

    On another note for time purposes:

    My observations and experiences are spanning decades

    My inquires (LEO-EMT) were within 11 years or more
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  10. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    Depends on your numbering system. :D But in the PTK 12 Count Abcedario it is indeed 3 and 4.

    47MartialMan's description:
    And he further describes this as being targeted at the chest or gut.

    So I read that as forehand and backhand lateral slashes to low to mid-low targets. Even if I read this as not perfectly flat and angled to some degree, it attack seems odd.
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Using ILS numbering angles #1 and #2 would be the most common I have seen in terms of slashes - essentially downward diagonals
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  12. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    I was wondering what the rules are on posting clips of knife attacks or knife fights?

    For knife defence I dont think there is a certain thing to do, just like in unarmed defence. Just try to survive and be open to letting whatever comes out, to come out.
    No situation would be the same and you have to go with whatever is happening and be open minded to do whatever needs doing using whatever and your surrounding enviroment.
    Its seems to be more attribute driven in the sense that being able to move fast, think fast, have good coordination, good grip , able to hit from any angle with feet to move away or quick reactions....allsort. As oppose to having to do a specific thing like certain footwork or certain moves.

    Running away might be an option but it might not. Do you turn and run? If its a small room with a door you could be caught and slashed in no time. Do you run forward past them then?..god knows, that could be dangerous. It wont be known untill its happening.
  13. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Job 1: Don't get stabbed.
    Job 1a: If you fail at Job 1, keep fighting. You're not dead yet.
    Job 2: Get control of the knife hand/arm. It need not be pretty. If you let go, you're back at square one, which is BAD.
    Job 3: While controlling the knife arm, beat the knife wielder senseless, break the knife arm, etc in so far as you don't lose control of the knife. Don't let the opponent switch the knife to his other hand. Also, slick disarms are difficult.

    Most good knife defence is more or less that. Also, if he just wants your wallet, phone or whatever, just give it to him. Toss is behind him and run away. It's not worth dying over.

    Don't expect to get good results drilling knife defence only occasionally. You must do it consistently and well. Avoid handing the knife back your training partner after the disarm. That's a very bad habit to put in muscle memory. Put it on the floor. DO NOT train to give an adversary back a weapon you just took form him, because under pressure, that's just what you'll do.
  14. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I have one slight disagreement with this.

    I have come to know (including a result that happened to myself and my brother), that your wallet also contains other valuable information beyond money. If you have a DL or ID, the robber could target you again or your home (per my brother on one incident and a friend on another)

    Whenever I go out, especially to certain areas, I carry a "spare wallet". It is much thinner than my regular wallet. For "effect', it has a few business cards (not mine), and a some actual paper money in small denominations. It does not have anything inside to link me. If you are robbed and give up the "spare wallet", get out of the area entirely (as one should), as the robber will discover that the wallet was a fake and return to the scene looking for revenge

    It worked for a few people I know (including myself), giving a robber the "spare wallet".

    As for giving up a phone, there are other things to do
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  15. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Some folks carry around a money clip for just such a purpose with a few small bills and maybe a 20 on the outside. :)
  16. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I recently spoke to someone who got robbed a day ago. He gave up the money clip. His robber thinking he had "more" asked him to turn out his pockets. Which had his car keys and regular wallet. The robber used the information in his wallet, and went to his home late at night, took his car

    I may come to think, the robber isn't satisfy getting a paltry money clip, per the clip seeming to be a low cache
  17. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Many people also get robbed for their phones now as it's usually worth more than people's cash. It's happened to several people I know of personally. I used to carry around an old phone for that very reason.
  18. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Agree, as for the last line in my post 154...

    Lock your phone or only use in a populated area

    A police officer once told me, they caught a robber by dialing the victim's phone and saying something like they had money for them...or some type of set up
  19. slasha

    slasha Banned Banned

    Not being stabbed.

    Surviving getting stabbed comes second

    Dying don't count

    as the Russians say,
    'the more you bleed in the pub, the more you need to find a nicer pub'
  20. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    longer weapons

    I once saw a fist fight between two young men.
    One ran into the butchers and grabbed a long-bladed knife.
    The other ran across the road towards me and grabbed an old man's walking stick.

    He ran back to the guy with the knife and laid into him. The one with the knife couldn't get close enough and eventually ran away. (it all lasted a few seconds at most.)

    So in answer to your question, a style that teaches you to use something longer than a knife (a gun might do that, but not very legal in Britain).

    Wrist locks won't work against someone who is tense and angry, but if you help them relax, perhaps you can disarm with a wrist lock.

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