Best aikido video i ever seen

Demo clips also show how the person performs the technique. His body movements, sometimes you can see their breathing, their footwork; so if all that is awful, you can can surmise that what they teach is just as awful. So lets use the Systema example that was talked about in the previous posts. Based on what people saw, would they go out and learn that style? See where I'm coming from...?

Bear, why not have the arm bar in your approach? Do you believe it would help with the un-balancing of the uke? Or is the idea of giving pain against the beliefs of your system?

 

Demo Clips

I won't comment on Systema because I've never experienced. I have however seen what looks like nonsense, and then felt it to be completely different.

The arm bar is a perfectly valid variation on the technique it's just not part of our classical shoulder throw. Pain is not against the tenets of our system. Pain is a wonderful motivator, but once motion has begun, one can usually apply technique without it.

aikiMac:

MacEwan's tapes are the only ones that I know to be commercially available at this time. There are other tapes that circulate within our dojos (primarily detailed explanation of technique to help in preparation for grading) but these aren't available to the public. I also know of other tapes made for commercial purposes (I was Uke in a couple) that never made it to general release. If I hear of anything I'll let you know.

Bear

 

Agree...

Bear... How long have you been training? Is your style of Aikido more linear or circular? What rank are you? Does your school have a website?

Jo

 

Nihon Goshin Aikido

Aiki-jo

I'm a Shodan, I've been training NGA for about 12 years. Prior to that I did 4 years of TKD; I've also dabbled in Shotokan Karate and BJJ (neither long enough to grade). The association's webpage is www.aikidoinc.com. Many of the affiliated dojos have websites of their own however, and if you're really curious you should probably visit many of them and get the composite feel.

Without meaning to split hairs I'd say all aikido is circular it's just the size of the circles that matter. I believe one should be flexible enough to choose the appropriate size of circle without getting caught up in false duality.

At the extremes (very large and very small) a circle appears to be a line, but the practitioner should know the difference even if it's not visible to observers. As commonly perceived though you'd probably say our style was more linear, but even that varies by the instructor.

I don't want to hijack this thread so if you want more NGA info message me. There was also quite an active thread a while back where several NGA practitioners (some senior to me) weighed in that you might find interesting.

Bear

 

Nice post Bear.

We've all seen where you're comeing from for a long time and we've all dissagreed. A few poor examples on a few video clips posted on the net doesn't give you enough information to say an entire system is crap. So you can sumerise all you like, but you're still jumping the gun and getting it wrong.

Personaly I wouldn't start any system of martial arts purely based on video clip. When I started Aikido nearly nine years ago now, I got on the mat and got involved. I didn't sit and judge it from a video or from sitting on the side lines.

 

aikijo said--

-sorry jo is that a question or are you tellin me what im thinking now?
If its the later, sorry mate ,ask folk what there thinking cause your once agin talking out of another hole than your mouth.
Im talking about everything, martialart. ki effectivness.
There is no way draj is any better an effectice ma than certain aikido styles. Thats the other point i want to make, what school and style did you prcatice. I take it you have spent years and years studying all the aikido styles to get the knoweldge you have on every style being no good or less good than yours? otherwise your making a huge fool of yourself mate, although we dont mind.

SO WHAT WHERE THE STYLES AND SCHOOLS AND FOR HOW LONG?
SOMETHING TELLS ME YOU WILL BE UNABLE TO ANSWER HIS PROPERLY!
YOU ARE AWARE THAT MOST AIKI STYLES ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TO EACH SOME HAVE NO CONNECTION TO THE OTHERS.

I will admit though mate that in my opinion i find soem aikido styles and schools very weak and about as martial as some draj schools. I hate all the large dancing movements, but if you think thats wha they wpuld pull of in the street your crazyxso are they if they think that.
aikido is not always circular, true aikido is a piercing stright attck through uke, ver effective and powerful, the circles are just lower levels of training.
I think the one thing you seem to be ignorant about is the fact that all martial arts have very bad schools and styles especially draj and aikido as they ae so badley understood and so many of tekada and osenseis students went away and came up with there own system.

You should be right mate but unfortunatley not everybody in your art does that or can do that which makes pretty weak and uselss draj, which you must be aware of, or you have blinkers on mate.

Once again you have just proved your ignorance to all akido out there, you would last les than 1 class in the iwama dojo mate.YOU DONT THINK AIKIDO TRAINING IS THE SAME? OF COURSE WE TRAIN FULL RESISTANCE THE FOUNDER ORDERD IT TI BE THAT WAY. oF COURSE NOT ALL SCHOOLS DO.

AND WHEN THEY LET GO YOU HOULD BE IN AN ADVANTAGE'S POSTION TO UKE , SO YOU CAN CONTROL THEM OR TAKE THEM OUT-OR YOUR ART IS PRETTY POOR,

ONCE AGAIN MATE SEEING AS YOUR CLIPS APPEAL NO MORE TO ME AS MINE DO TO YOURS CAN YOU EXPLAIN YOUR EXTENSIVE YEARS OF TRAINING IN ALL AIKIDO STYLES? WHICH YOU MUST HAVE HAD?

 

I agree with the statement that demo vids are NOT representative material for an MA on the whole. I believe the O sensei himself said that what he did in some videos was simply impossible.

Also, when our dojo gives a demo, it ALWAYS features some kokyu nage. These are not actual techniques, but practise material for the aikidoka's. However, when watching a vid, these excersises would be judged as being a real (effective) technique.

Even if I keep this in mind, the video from Vladimir still raises some doubts. Main point is his attitude (as interpreted by me) while dealing with the uke's. It shouldn't be that hard to keep a decent kamai, and far more realistic than letting your guard down when 3 ukes try to punch your teeth out.

He appears far too sluggish and even uninterested from my point of view, which in turn makes him look like superman for the audience. But this last point is just an example of why demo vids do not give a fully realistic view of a MA. (at least, I hope not).

 

muaykido says-

Sorry mate i dont know how your style or club practices them, but i cant disagree more over that statement. THEY ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT AND EFFECTVIE TECHS IN THE IWAMA DOJO, WHICH MEANS THEY WHERE THE MOST IMPORTANT TO THE FOUNDER.
Saito sensei alwasy said aikido without kokyu is like sumo without strength, it is our power. all techs contain kokyu, its in your hands at all times.
You need to recognise the body entrys or movemets to each attack angle, attcks should an grabs should alwasy be done with full intention even when slow, grips should be held strong through the entire tech to feel all mistakes quicker.

NOTHING WORKS BETTER THAN KOKYUNAGE

 

There are no "Kamae" in Systema. No stances just form, relaxation, movement and breathing.

FYI From what I've heard Vlad doesn't mind people "trying him out" when they go to his dojo. It's happened on a on number of times.

 

So he has tested this way of approaching uke's, then. That increases my respect for him.

To aikiscotsman, I didn't mean that kokyu doesn't work/isn't important. Heck no. What I meant are specific 'ki hon' kokyu nage's. For instance: kata te dori, gyaku han mi, (tai sabakki) tenkan kokyu nage.
A ki hon technique like that is not very effective, I believe. But we do incorporate them in demo's because they give tori some time to 'relax' for the next more difficult technique.
In ki hon no gara, a similar nage technique could very well be effective, though.

 

Ok i understand what your saying but without your kihon being correct everything else will be weak. so in a way kihon must work, its just advanced techs slower. bigger and more broken down.

 

Yep you could say that

You'll find it's a recurring theme in the Systema world. People raise questions and bring up doubts they have, which is good, and they usually get invited to go to a session and "have a go" as it really is something you have to feel.

My instructor has at times worked the doors and a couple of weeks ago was asked "well what can you do, how can you stop me", he's about 5' 7" slim not very imposing, my instructors reply was “Nothing I’m just trying to make some extra money” not wanting to agitate the situation. After some talking it turned out the individual doing the asking wasn't trying to "kick off" he was genuinely interested what this little guy was doing working in a rough London club!!

So after a discussion and once it was established that there was no ill will the guy was invited to try him out, one reason for this according to my instructor was that this guy was pretty big and he was interested as to if he actually could stop him , the chap ended up discovering why there was a small Russian working the door and may I add he didn't get hurt.

 

I have not spent years and years studying Aikido. But I've spent years and years studying AJJ. And AJJ is much more effective art than Aikido. We can go into details about why that is some other time. But for one plain reason, Aikido's watered down techniques. But we'll leave that alone, don't want to cause any more trouble with that opinion.

Admitting it is the first step, the next step is too train in AJJ. The large dancing moves make me want to vomit. The large moves on the street is as effective as dancing on the street.

I think I would last maybe 2-3 classes. Aikido training is not even close to true AJJ or Jujitsu training. 'Full resistance', c'mon now, who are you trying to kid.

I almost agree with you here.

[/QUOTE]

This quote, you're in dreamland...Time to wake up.

Criticism is a part of life. You can't possibly agree with EVERYTHING people say.

 

Since when is criticism a part of life? That statement may back up your arguments and give you 'open season' on anything you don't understand...but it certainly is not a part of life!

Criticism, when not asked for, is at best, mean and at worst, ignorant. I'm not saying Aikijo is ignorant...I'm saying he is making comments from a place of ignorance.

Aikijo, have you trained in Systema? Do you know anyone that has trained in Systema? Have you talked to anyone that even knows what Systema is? Are you basing all of your Systema "knowledge" on a few 15 second clips?

If so, this is ignorance. Knowledge, friend. Knowledge before commentary.

Cheers!

 

You know as well as I do that there is criticism in this life. Unless you're living in a box.

No, I have never trained in Systema. No, I don't know anyone who has trained in that style. No, I've never spoken to anyone from that system. I have no knowledge of Systema whatsoever. All I know of it is from the clips I've seen.

I may be ignorant to the style, but my ignorance doesn't take away from my ability to criticize something that looks awful. Is the MA style awful to train in, maybe, maybe not. But from my criticism, I concluded that I would not train in something that just looks BAD.

 

So you know nothing of the art? you have no experience of it? and just because it doesn't "look good" to you then you dismiss it?

Go to a Systema class talk to the instructor and have a go!

Heck if you're in the Uk and anywhere near the Midlands you'd be more than welcome to turn up at the session I go to and have a play .

I'm not leaping at my Arts defence like a Zealot I don't feel there's a need but I have to admit that I'm amazed that someone would base comments on an Arts effectiveness just on a few clips!!! Go find somewhere have a look and come back with an informed descision.

After that if you still feel it's no good then fine. Each to their own and all that.

 

Same level as your experience in Aikido then huh?

 

Is there a website that shows where schools are located in the US. If so, I would be happy to go pay a visit.

No, I do have experience in Aikido, very little though. I have taken a couple of classes and visited at least a dozen schools hoping to find something decent. I still am interested in finding a school that is decent.