BBC3 Programme - Mind, Body & Kick-Ass Moves

because it isn't real.

 

That program was OK, not brilliant though. He seemed kind of arrogant. That thing about the Sparrow and the Tiger seemed pretty simple to me. Don't be where the fight is, and know your limitations.

 

oh really?
it was all the chi nonsense that annoyed me. And i really don't think that WC dude was making a valid point about functional training. I think he was being an ****. Bruce lee used functional, good routines.

 

After all the effort, I couldn't watch the programme because of the dodgy reception caused by the rain.

I'm going to try and catch the repeats on Wednesday or Thursday, so I'm holding judgement on the programme. But from what everyone says it seems to be a wasted opportunity to present some decent martial arts material ... instead of a gameshow.

That is exactly what I thought after reading all this. The WotW was more like a documentary; more geographically varied and a non-sensationalist record of martial arts at that point in time.

 

I Watched "Fight School" on Sky one Mix to soften the blow before that BBC3 programme.. Whilst I barely struggled through some of the worst editing ever in Fight School, I only lasted 10 mins of "kick ass..... etc"...

Pants, utter baggy pants right from the Kill Bill intro tune and graphics through to The wannabe Shifu David Blaine presenting it...... arrrghhhhhh how comes we never get decent programmes for our sport....

Mind you caught a quite good TKD documentry on one of the sky travel channels few weeks back....

 

Hi,

I personally thought the programme was pretty good. Their certainly was some interesting stuff.

Still cant understand why some people get so angry when they see someone demonstrating chi energy.

 

I have to agree with Yoda on this one (for once!). I was really looking forward to this programme, but instead it was just a bunch of cheap martial arts 'tricks'. Put 6 people in a line, with the 6'2" guy at the front. Then crouch really low - look, they can't push you over. Perhaps simple leverage has something to do with this. Hey, look I can punch a metal drum really softly. Break some tiles that are set on fire. Get some untrained skateboarder to punch you in the stomach - look the chi has deflected it.

Switched it off half way through in disgust, missed the penis trick. I'm sure it was chi that got him through it though!

Will probably it watch again next week though - sad, eh?

 

we get angry about chi because it is a manifest and obvious attempt to deceive, self-glorify and steal. What I can't understand is why people wish to defend it. Perhaps they have a vested interest- all the other side of the argument have is a hopless conviction that the truth is worth defending.

 

I agree to some extent - IMO chi is not magical powers, but a way of focusing your muscles to work in a more efficient way. Modern athletes learn similar techniques - running the 100m in under 10 seconds is not magic, although it's far in excess of what any of us 'mortals' can do. Training, conditioning, correct breathing, and relaxation - not anything mystical.

However, there are those that practice these techniques that may view it as magic - as long as it works for them, what difference does it make? I'm sure not everyone out there who talks about chi is deliberatly trying to deceive us.

But this isn't really a thread about chi - did anyone else see the programme?

 

What about the guy who's entire art is about using Ki-hap as means of attack. You see him floor an attacker with a yell - seems debatable.

He said that as the body is mostly water, you can use a Ki-hap to change the bodies energy.

However, the ringing the bell thing was strange.

 

Hi KnightErrant.

I'm not wishing to pick an fight as I like some of your posts...but....on what basis do you make this argument? You seem to have a very firm view on this but how many exponents of kungfu/qigong have you encountered in person?

Yes, there are many,many charlatans out there who sell cheap tricks as chi gong. However, there are some people that would make you question this stance. I have "felt" chi being used and firmly believe that it is a genuine focusing of energy. Notice, I don't say it is a different energy, just a focusing of energy. Be that mental, or physical.

How many times have you involuntarily exhaled/grunted when lifting something heavy? Why do you do that? Is it to compress your diaphragm and direct chi to your lifting muscles? Or do you just do it cos you just do it and it sounds macho?

Is the Kiap, Kiai not just a similar vocal technique - except you are consciously doing it at the contact point of your punch? Possibly, to focus energy at this point?

I don't for one minute believe the "no touch" type of chi demonstration. I think this is nonsense and relies upon the power of suggestion. However, I DO believe that there is more to POWER than just muscular strength. Hence the biceps oppose triceps statements - see my other post on this elsewhere.

I haven't seen the programme yet - so maybe the demos were nonsense. But, as i say, don't dismiss chi(qi) so readily.

Paul

 

Ack! Chi has made its way back into the mainstream MAP forums! Good thing I've got Franky the Goblin to save me.

 

i watched 2 episodes of this yesterday, it is the funniest tv i have seen in years! i watched some episodes of the young ones after and only cackled this made me guffaw!!

this has to be the best comedy programme like ever! i saw the epiode with the iron penis training!! it was so funny i wet myself!! and when the host sparred with a tkd guy and got his ass kicked royally and then said "its good to take a few shots now and again" i nearly died!!

my second favourite bit was with the female wrestlers, that was class!! and the look on the huge bouncers face as he gave them tips!!!

I really wanna train with the guy that host this he could teach me so much, i too could make myself a laughing stock on national TV!!

 

A few points

HHF

>Get some untrained skateboarder to punch you in the stomach - look the chi has deflected it.<

Yep, a good, solid demo of Chi power - watch as the punch lands how Chris' Chi allows his hips to rotate thereby deflecting the blow!


PaulS

>I don't for one minute believe the "no touch" type of chi demonstration. I think this is nonsense and relies upon the power of suggestion.<

My problem is that I have worked with a Chi gung master called Bisong Guo. At one of her workshops I felt faint (as I recall I had skipped breakfast - my mistake). Anyhoo, she sat me down, told me to close my eyes, and then I was flung out of the chair. She had been moving the Chi around the Microcosmic Orbit (up the spine then down the centreline) and had sent the energy up my spine too fast casuing me to be flung forwards.

Now you had to be there, and you had to experience it, but as I was and did I know that it was not suggestion. At no point did she tell me what she was going to do AT ALL! I have dealt with people who wished to believe in Chi, but have never experienced it without some form of Western explanation. And this is the crux of the matter. The term Chi covers many different types of energy in Chinese Medicine, so some of the useages can be compared to Western Medical thought, and some cannot.

Lets hope the interesting bits between the rubbish are worth watching the whole series for!

Bill

BTW the bit where he was "pulling the Chi through the skateboarders (?) back and the kid fell FORWARDS...snigger ;-)

 

Quite a few, I've yet to have any of them successfully demonstrate any form of chi on me.

No, its to compress the diaphragm allowing better biomechanics to be used, thus increasing your lifting power to a degree. Same with the kiyap. Now if you want to call that chi, then fine, but its not because of some mystical energy, its simply basic muscular biology.

What I want to see is a program that analyses the biomechanics of martial arts, now that'd be interesting.

 

I re watched them both last night as I was in and out of the lounge when it was on Monday, and I have one thing to add to the chi argument, was i the only person that thought the audience was being set up ?? First 10 minutes of the first program are a well respected martial arts instructor talking about Vagabond tricks used by con men and the 'chi' is in essence a parlour trick, and he then spends the rest of the show talking about chi / energy manipulation in its most extreme forms, the expression 'ever been had' crossed my mind, even the narrators sarcastic tone of voice suggested it.

( I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I have an open enough mind to deal with it, I have friends who are reiki healers, t'ai chi instructors and so on, there must be something to it, and millions of people world wide are treated with accupuncture / accupressure etc )

I'm starting to wonder if the show is meant to be a serious representation of the martial arts, or a slightly whimsical observation on how some of the more extreme parts of the martial arts world have penetrated mainstream culture, I'm going for the later

Neil

 

I noticed he was also stamping his foot pretty hard when he did it.......

 

Not wanting to get into a deep discussion on this as I'm no expert at all. However,

"No, its to compress the diaphragm allowing better biomechanics to be used, thus increasing your lifting power to a degree. Same with the kiyap. Now if you want to call that chi, then fine, but its not because of some mystical energy, its simply basic muscular biology."

Better biomechanics - hmmmmm. Ok - what if Qi Gong is just an alternative way of expressing the above principles. Not fundamentally different - just a different way of expressing the same principles?

The other meaning of Qi/Chi is "air" or "breath". Oxygen allows us to function and energise our muscles. This energy (whatever form it takes) exists. Are we really talking about "mystical" energy or just....energy.

OK - I accept the fact that you can explain(most of) the effects through current science, biology etc but is doesn't change the fact that Qi Gong = breath work
. Breath work = training the body to derive maximum value from its breathing operations. Whether you believe that the "energy" can be built up at the dan tien is a different and called upon at will is a different matter.

As I said, I have a very limited understanding of the subject but am prepared to be open minded. Just wondered why Knight Errant had such a fixed view?

Paul

 

I've met several- at CMA classes I have attended. And i hold to my views. Grunting and kiaing is NOT chi-based. It's a natural reaction to intense physical effort. Chi was a decent concept in its day and a good way of looking at the universe. It isn't anymore.

 

All of the effects. I've yet to find an effect of 'chi' that is not explainable with simple science, and which actually exists.