Battojutsu/iai in Bujinkan/Genbukan/Other?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by ScottUK, Apr 24, 2011.

  1. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Damn guys, I was gonna point that one out (tsukE komi/kake)...

    Right, to the rest. The spelling of Sayu Gyaku is correct, each of the nine formal kata have three or so alternate versions, refered to as Sayu Gyaku (pretty literally: Left Right Reverse, to give an idea of what they are). The last three kata I believe are kuden, the only examples I have seen are some still shots of Takamatsu Sensei at the back of Hatsumi Sensei's "Japanese Sword Fighting" book, with these kata names in the captions, pages 208-211 (with captions for images including "Shinmyoken", "Engekien'" , "Shinmyo Fudo no ken", and so on). This is more in keeping with other traditions, such as Katori Shinto Ryu, where the secret transmissions are higher level kata in established sections (Kenjutsu), not entire sections themselves.

    In terms of your list, Kasugai Dome is alternately called Kin Shi (Gold/Metal Finger), Tsuki no Wa in more about a "ring around the moon", and a possible better translation for Kirisage might be "lowering cut", "dropping" would be more likely "Otoshi". Other than that, it matches my notes pretty well as well. As I said, though, it's the Togakure Ryu Biken ones that seem to have some missing.

    Oh, and just a small note, in Kukishin Ryu, Biken refers to an entire section, including Kenpo (the name for the long sword methods), Kodachi (short sword), and Jutte (Juppo Sessho, said to be the highest level of Bikenjutsu in the Ryu). So the list you have here is actually just the Kukishin Ryu Kenpo from the Biken section.
     
  2. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Hi

    I rechecked my notes and I received Kukishinden Bikenjutsu as meaning sword forms with jutte etc separate

    Like I said, old notes, totally possible that there's a misunderstanding / error in translation etc, but it lines up with Mark's list (which despite our friendship has been sourced independently). Largely semantics and not really a point of substance, but may be of interest to some

    I'm more curious to hear if the 3 final kuden forms are taught in all the xkans? Not sure if they're taught in the Buj, I've not come across them, but I've not asked either
     
  3. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Yeah, that's a common assumption. However if you check things like Paul Richardsons "History of the Schools of the Bujinkan", it gives three alternate lists of the Happo Biken (some separate the Jutte and Kodachi from the Kenpo, one doesn't), but they all use the term "Kenpo" for the swordsmanship. Same with Hatsumi Sensei's book "Japanese Sword Fighting", Kenpo is used to describe the swordwork.

    In terms of the other Kans (or even the Bujinkan) teaching the last three, possibly Kuden, kata, I haven't heard of it. My assumption would be that they're not a part of the Jinenkan, which is based on Manaka's tendancy to put everything (or pretty much everything) in his videos/DVD's/downloads etc. As for the Genbukan, no idea, but you'd need to ask a Genbukan member who is very highly ranked in either the Bikenjutsu sword syllabus or Kukishin Ryu itself.
     
  4. shinsen

    shinsen Valued Member

    Those three techniques are in the Jinenkan and have been listed by Manaka Sensei in the Jinenkan newsletters and the Kukishin Biken video. Although these techniques are listed quite openly, there are no public descriptions of them because they are designated as kuden. I do know for a fact that Manaka Sensei has passed these techniques on in person though.
     
  5. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Very cool to know, thank you for that John.
     
  6. gor

    gor Valued Member

    This is a quote from Kutaki, by Shihan M. Harada.....
     

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