old pal-was not aware of any research substantiating the Taoist sect which performs circle walking to also perform any palm change. spg-Erle's PK is supposed to be Gao style.If his animal forms are from Sun then Erle added them. Griffin-there is a PK formed called the Original form.It is so named as it was the first form taught in that particular branch.The name was never meant to imply it was the "original" form Tung taught.There is no such form,or any form, from Tung as far as is known. Outside of the single and double changes,and the static postures used when circle walking,as far as is known the forms we see today,as well as the various techniques,such as the 64 Palms and various nei-gungs,etc., are all---all--- from Tung's lineal descendants. No idea what Erle means by "ch'i awakening forms".Unless he just means the nei-gung and pre-birth exercises of Gao's PK. Edit P.S.-shouldn't this be in the "internal" arts forum?
I don't know about any research substantiating that either.... like I said, "According to my teacher." .
Hi El Medico, Yes thats what ive learned these last few days. At one site i was at while googling Bagua it basically said Tung did as you say, circle walking hand postures and single double palm change.then allowed the students to exspress themselves according to the principals of Zhuan zhang (rotating palm) soon to be named Bagua zhang. Yin Fu was more of a striker and Cheng Ting-Hua more of a wrestler and so on. Thankyou for your comment as i am always learning. Griffin
Hey spg I was just watching Erles snake form available on you-tube again and he is showing a detail of a movement and he says, "You may have seen a picture of Sun Lu-Tan standing like this"... It is even more likely now that the forms are the same with a slight consideration of individual exspression. Really hard to pinpoint inventor of the "Full 8 animal forms. Considering Erle's passing comment on Sun Lu Tan, Its quite possibly Sun LuTan. cheers mate : Yep should be in other forum
He (Sun) didn't invent them he just named them after animals. Some systems use elements some use animals for classifications, whether it's the mother palms or the palm changes. The Sun style has the single and double change and 8 "animal" forms all on the circle. Sun systemized his bagua style from Cheng style. The material came from there. His style is often thought of as stripped down or simplified(less elaborate) than Chengs style. I may be mistaken - as I havn't personally researched all the movements in Suns style, but my guess (from what i've heard) is that he took the 8 changes of Cheng style and made them into 10; probably by splitting a couple of the longer more elaborate changes into simpler bite size chunks and clearer combative ideas. I don't think much new material was added/ created by Sun Lu Tang himself. but he modified Cheng and taught/presented it differently.
