I see, so you're counting on all those "one-punch knockouts" to work. Yeah, those have been so successful in NHB. I could see why you'd rather do that than aikido. Good job.
I'd like to add that I have on occassion seen some very good amatuer boxer friends of mine who I worked the door with, actually do that. I will admit that it was usually on drunken skells, but it was still kinda cool! Col
Yup, I've seen the same thing, Col, but I'd also rather have the clinch and grappeling game in my arsenal, too, in case the drunken skell just looks at me funny afterwards (seen that happen, too).
Is it just me or did every single thread here get turned into a fight about Aikido vs [please insert style here]? This sort of question wore pretty thin with me pretty fast when I first joined MAP. This question has been done to the death and is hanging around like a stale fart under the bed sheets. If you realy realy realy want to know if Aikido works against real life attacks go find out by asking a teacher to let you attack him/her any way you like. Then you'll have your answer.
Examples, please? I've seen questions where people ask how aikido would handle a given scenario (some are intentionally inflammatory, others by people that haven't trained and can't spell, while others are just offering opinions - I consider myself to be in the latter camp). I've also seen where people think that because others claim that aikido has holes for their needs (nhb comps, etc.) that they need to crosstrain or study something else. There are also folks that are perfectly happy to just study aikido. I'd say a lot of people lie somewhere between the two. Of course, those that really try to argue style vs. style usually don't last too long and have usually lost the argument before it's begun. I can see how certain styles are better for certain things, but usually in specific cases. Training methodology and individual aptitude holds a lot more water with me. Also, those that have made up their minds and aren't looking for a discussion generally leave after they realize they aren't winning.
man if i could put an agresor w/ a strike of course i would, but could you give an example of a useful strike that could put a man down?
Examples? It was just a general observation about the tone of disscussion in most of the current threads. It all seems to come back to Aikido in a fight or Aikido vs something, either directly or indirectly. There's nothing wrong with looking at Aikido in that context. After all we'd all like to be confident that what we are doing works. I just don't see the need for it in all the threads. Maybe I'm reading it all wrong. But it just seemed like lately all that really gets disscussed is Aikido vs this or that or Aikido in a fight. http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=200961#post200961 http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13739 http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201262#post201262 http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201237#post201237 http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13839&page=1 http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13796&page=1 That's most of the currently active threads. There's got to be something better to talk about shirley.
Aikiwolfie is right, lets get this Atemi thread back on track gents. The first five techniques of the Shodokan Randori no Kata are Atemi waza, although when practiced at high levels uke always practices ukemi (weird that ) to get out of the way. If they didn't get out of the way they'd normally get their face caved in. The problem I see at lower skill levels (mine), is that aikidoka are to scared to committ the atemi waza in fear that they'll strike uke, whaddaya think? Col
hey man you got my question to madfrank confused. if he knows a good move i'd like to try it out maybe it could save lives. pls man i'm no nonsense question type of guy. pls respect me to coz ive not violated any rule on posting and i respect you to. my word is all i have and i wont jeopardize it. we have a serial knife staber in the philippines now and if "a single move" could delay a fatal attack its my duty to teach my students.
Nah. I'm seeing more "how does this work in the real world" type questions than folks trying to say "aikido vs. x", which then can lead into "aikido in a fight" type responses. I think this is especially valid given that there are even high-ranking folks in/from Japan that are debating these questions (read some stuff written by Saotome Sensei, Chiba Sensei and Nishio Sensei) even today. Aikiwolfie, I think you nailed it in another thread where you mentioned that it's the student's responsibility to be able to make things work in a real setting. If the teacher's are competent, they can help in this, or, possibly the student may want or need to crosstrain. Either way, it's the student's responsibility. I do find fault with misleading marketing practices, or blatant historical half-truths, but at this point have no idea what to do about that. Col, I think we've been on track. Aikido practice, especially today, is going to be a mix of persons bringing stuff from other areas, arguing about who's got the real O-sensei aikido (and then being hit with a shovel ) and generally debating areas of practice, affiliations, methods and philosophy. As I said before, I think the idiots that are looking to flame or cause trouble will be argued away soon enough (or called on their BS), which will, hopefully leave discussions and debates that, while not always easy or even necessarily fun, will give us an opportunity to learn a few more things.
last week in class only 2 students and 1 instructor showed up. we were working on an atemi counter to a wrist grab. for the life of me, i couldn't duplicate what i was being shown. it was just a very deliberate straight right to uke's jaw, but i kept turning it into a backfist. so, i have come to the conclusion (foregone) that a quick backfist is a great tool for distraction/ closing distance. what are some drills you guys use to practice palm strikes? i need to find a change my initial reaction from closed fist to palm strike as a result of an injury to my knuckle about a year ago. i can still punch softer objects just fine, but anything harder than a canvas bag causes mild swelling/ discomfort.
Here's an easy one: On your entrance into sumi otoshi, deliver an uppercut palm strike, which can easily be turned over into an elbow, THEN strip down the arm and step through into the throw. You'll find plenty of other places to implement the same atemi.
okay. how do i ingrain this response outside of the dojo? IRL, my initial reaction is a right cross. what are some ways to break this habit? any experience with visualization? or should i just find someone to let me palmstrike them repeatedly.
If you do any sparring that incorporates strikes, make it a priority to work for setting them up with a palm-strike (basically, a boxing uppercut with an open hand), then turning the arm over for the muay thai elbow and then driving forward for sumi otoshi (aikido). Osotogari (judo) works REALLY well from this setup as well. The reasons for this atemi (in this aikido application) are twofold: 1) Create a connection between you and the other person. 2) Fix that person in place while you close the distance. These strikes also work equally well in two step aikido practice (providing uke is protecting his head) and in a more nhb type setting for throw/takedown setups. A visualization for the uppercut is to drive the hip and arm like a boxing uppercut, keep the hand open, still strike through the target, but then stick to them, to target the elbow strike. The elbow strike, to simplify, is a bit like bringing your striking hand to your own chest by flipping your elbow (driven by the hip) over through the target in a diagonal arc -- keep driving the elbow through and either A) Bring the hand back up to cover OR B) Use the momentum that's created to stick to the opponent's shoulder, strip down the bicep and step through for the sumi otoshi. Hope this helps . . .
could i kindly ask sir budd what belt are you in aikido? what degree are you in judo? and do you have a belt in submission fighting? so i could assume the level of training that goes with your understanding of topics you guru in.
and if possibly sir budd how old are you? just give it in approsimation. like i'm around 25-35 years old.
Hmm maybe this wasn't the right thread to make the point about the current violence dominated overtone to the forum. However the point is valid, it seems like that is all people are talking about right now. aikinoob was there a reason for such a poor attendance? Two students and one instructor sounds really poor. This comes back to what I was saying in another thread about students taking responsibility for them selves. aikinoob it sounds like you've pretty much given up on the counter you were being shown. I'd stick with it and figure out how it's done. If your knuckles hurt use an open hand and strike with the heal of your hand or the outside edge. The best way to ingrain this is to simpley practice and be conciousley aware of what you are doing. It will become a habbit soon enough.
Hi master35, I'm happy to tell you of the rankings I've achieved, although you may be disappointed. I earned a green belt in judo back in the early 80s and haven't tested in it since then (although I recently started playing judo twice a month and spar brown and black belts at Charles Cavrich's club -- even tapped a couple in randori ). I earned a 5th kyu in aikikai aikido back in 1993, but haven't tested in aikido since. The aikido school (non-affiliated and under the guidance of Ellis Amdur) at which I currently train does not have belt ranks, but offers a mokoroku license (which essentially means you've achieved competence and demonstrated proficiency in the entire curriculum -- we're still developing our curriculum). I earned a brown belt in an Americanized karate system back in 1994, but haven't tested in karate since then (or actively trained since 2000). None of the places where I trained catch wrestling or submission fighting have had belt ranks. Nor did I receive any belt ranks from competing in state wrestling tournaments in freestyle or greco-roman wrestling, or for winning and placing at regional tournaments. The jodo I study also has licensing, as it's a koryu, and I'm nowhere near competent enough or have the time in to be considered for even the lowest level license. The basic philosophy I have regarding belt ranks is that, at it's best, it demonstrates proficiency and commitment to a specific school, which may be indicative of said schools affiliation (Aikkai, Kodokan, Renjo's BJJ Academy, WTF, Shidokan, etc.) AND, in some cases, the level of merit and respect given to belts awarded from said organizations can vary. For instance, I will currently give a 1st Dan BJJ blackbelt a LOT more respect as a competent fighter than say, a 12-year-old 3rd Dan that's won lots of kata tournaments. Having said that, I'm not trying to say that I don't think the 12-year-old worked hard, it's just that one art is spent with a lot of full-resistance sparring against skilled opponents (and currently has incredibly high standards before it's awarded) and if the other is mostly spent on forms, they just don't compare in my book (although I'm not as quick to totally eliminate forms as some). That said, I don't know that I ever will get any higher "belt" ranks than I have right now. People that have sparred with me (black belts and others) can attest to my abilities (even if they don't have a high opinion of them ). I have had offers to be dan graded or instructor rated, but there were usually strings attached that were not compatible with my training goals. As such, I've found it easier to just train. I make no claims of mastery or expertise. I do have strong opinions (understatement) that I've formed through hard training in a variety of environments (and funny enough, many dan grades that I train with share these opinions ). I've also met and trained with yellow belts that are awesome and crappy AS WELL as black belts that were awesome and crappy. But there are two things I can tell you for certain. I'm not a guru and please don't call me "sir" . I'll tell that next February 2 (Groundhog's Day) I will be 30 years old. Hope this helps . . .
thats true i had a yellow belt only green and brown and blackbelts had to sparr the guy was crazy as hell he didnt hold back.
