Are Traditional Martial Arts Underestimated in MMA?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by JJMicromegas, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Ha Ha great post slip. I must say that you are even more astute and amusing since you got religion.

    Loved it.:cool:
  2. Pitfighter

    Pitfighter Valued Member

    And the cycle begins anew. After coming back to this thread in recent weeks after not even remembering it for probably a couple years I'm glad to see the same old tired arguments being recycled.

    My kata is better than yours its called the kamehameha system. LEARN IT LOVE IT LIVE IT.
  3. Body Sushi

    Body Sushi Valued Member

    What does 'trained well enough mean'?
    - Does your training prepare you for being kicked and punched in the face?
    - Does your training provide you with the timing required to counter a non-cooperative opponent? or to slip/bob/weave/block... etc
    - Does it let you feel like what it's like to keep on fighting when you've seriously bruised a leg?
    - Does it prepare you for facing the full-on aggression of an opponent?

    The video I linked to doesn't...

    And you think competing doesn't let you experience the adrenal dump? Get into a ring, and try it... I've seen guys puking in the toilets before their fights... hell, a few guys don't even make it to their fights...
    And yea... guess what... the more it happens to you, the more you learn to deal with it...

    I grant you this is not all there is to a street-fight, but developing these skills is a pretty good start... and there's only one way I'm aware you gonna develop them... and it takes a bit more than once a month...
  4. illegalusername

    illegalusername Second Angriest Mapper

    But maybe if i train kata enough the skill will manifest itself when i really need it
  5. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Oh, you mean actually fighting? Yeah, we do that.

    The point is, if you pose all class and imagine what you could do with those poses all month, and then spar one day out of that month, your priorities are completely out of whack.

    In order to be able to apply ANYTHING against a committed attacker, you MUST apply it against a committed attacker on a regular basis. It feels cool to imagine what you'd do, and tell people what you could do in class, and go through the motions, but that's not what wins fights. Matching to your opponent in motion is what wins fights. This ability DOES NOT come from anything but fighting. You can fight lightly, slowly, or under a restricted set of rules, but if you do not do it every day, you simply will NOT be able to keep up with those who do. Sparring is not an afterthought or secondary training method, it is the heart of technical development for actual fighters.
  6. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    What is Kata? In short, Kata is a training routine. Just like any other training routine, it should only be a part of the entire training regiment.
  7. Zen Warrior

    Zen Warrior Red Dragon System

    Trained well enough? trained in a system designed specifically with its core as street self defense. We've had 40 years of people taking what works and dumping what doesn't. Just from my last grading I have a borked knee and will probably never regain full use of it. Yes we train hard within what is reasonable of actually being able to get indemnity insurance. If someone stuffs up and leaves open a leg or a floating rib then yes on more occasions then not they'll get a kick to it to make them realise they should harden up and defend themselves better. Slipping/bobbing/weaving/ducking i've covered all of that. Barring real aggression and hoping not to put myself in that situation any time soon we train for most possible scenarios yes. I don't really carry the agression or want to fight unless I really have to these days though.

    As far as putting myself in a ring fight, I could organise one the next time the Thai fighting centre I train in has a fight night not under our Zen Do Kai dojo and not exactly in free style karate, but a good Thai fight none the less and that's no biggie. I may do it once I get my fitness up a little more than what it is and have really cut down. I'm carrying a little to much weight, CFS and not being able to train as well as you'd like because of chronic sore throats/lethargy does that to you however.

    BTW if you want to look at form with regards to kata and point sparring here's a video [ame=""]the early days[/ame]

    As for my previous sparring at least once a month comment, you know I'd like to be able to train more often but when you get a dojo that's open 3 days a week you don't really get a chance to train every day the way some of these guys above did in the traditional form of Zen Do Kai.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2010
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Self-defense training that leaves you less capable than you were before should probably be reevaluated. Lacking full use of your knee isn't very empowering.

  9. Zen Warrior

    Zen Warrior Red Dragon System

    I reevaluated it, I stopped training at that particular dojo. Chop kicking someones knee is a fairly stupid idea in the first place, but what's happened, happened and there's not to much I can do about it. You can cry about it, or you can pick yourself up and move on realising that I don't have much strength at all in that leg anymore because of a flimsy knee.

    Whats a worse idea as a martial artist? Booking myself in for surgery and probably being told not to practice martial arts again, or doing everything I can including strengthening my quads around it making it as strong as what it can be. I choose the later.
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Id see a doctor and see what damage there is, then that can inform your rehab, and/or have surgery if thats whats is needed/possable, then rehab and train till you old.

    BTW do they really have 'Dai Renshi' in Zendokai? whats all that about?
  11. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Why are they mutually exclusive? You see a surgeon, ignore his admonition against practicing martial arts if that's your choice, but at least you'll get the benefit of his medical opinion. None of which would undo the conditioning program you're describing anyway.

    I mean, your knee is how your knee is at this point. It's not like your knee is going to get worse simply because a surgeon tells you something. Forewarned is forearmed.


    p.s. I'm getting sidetracked here, I know.
  12. Zen Warrior

    Zen Warrior Red Dragon System

    We have Sensai, Dai Sensei,Renshi, Dai Renshi, one step up the food chain with regards to instructors I guess, he's a probationary 5th dan or so but after 20 years of training. He just got graded and awarded the title at our last Senjo and is considered the right hand man to our instructor which is I guess the "dai" Renshi title.

    As for my knee I've seen a doctor, the usual treatment, bend here, see if it makes any noises, it doesn't, but I've also seen a sports physio and my patela is out of alignment. Thats a problem from not doing enough to strengthen the surrounding muscles after the initial injury and a lack of stretching. Basically because my hamstring was tight and my quad muscles aren't as developed as they should be my patela is being pulled out of alignment. I've been wearing a patela stabaliser but at the moment I'm just on rest and trying to keep it mobile so I don't lose any more movement in the joint.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
  13. Touch of death

    Touch of death Valued Member

    Zen Warrior i hope you get your knee fixed and you can train again, it sucks when injury takes you out of the game.

    back to the original topic, i think tma should stay tradional even if they suck, and the mma guys should take what works for them, (i think they already have).
    if all the tma modernise then there will only be one system mma
  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    In what sense?

    Jiu-Jitsu to be added to every single TMA? Remove the Eagle Claws, spear hands?

    Training methods and theory should be modernised/keep up with the times but to say that we'll become all MMA is nonsensical. In my humble opinion.

    I been training in CMA since young and MMA for a while, initially a rocky transition from one stance to another, a balance was found. The general flexibility and strength (tho nowhere near the wrestlers) was always there. But MMA/Wrestling helped me understand transitions more, while the CMA provided my fluid movement and conditioning and close quarter stand up.

    Just because you add in a little more groundwork and 4oz gloves into my kungfu dont mean its suddenly MMA.
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    @ Zen: If you like to, peruse my journal regarding my recent recovery of the knee and I hope you'll get something thats actually helpful to you.
  16. Touch of death

    Touch of death Valued Member

    everything is getting so mixed that everyone is doing the same **** if you go to a mma club they cover the bulk of what you need and this will be the only style left
  17. Touch of death

    Touch of death Valued Member

    [/QUOTE] Just because you add in a little more groundwork and 4oz gloves into my kungfu dont mean its suddenly MMA
  18. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Just because you add in a little more groundwork and 4oz gloves into my kungfu dont mean its suddenly MMA
    All martial arts is Kung Fu
  19. Pitfighter

    Pitfighter Valued Member

    I hope this reply will create a page 14! hahahaha. Sorry couldn't help myself. Wish i could say more to ensure a page 14 but I can't. Peace!
  20. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    With your post, you were short of two pages

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