anyone ever tried Aiki Tora Ryu Aikido?

Yes he is - he has PM'd me at lunchtime today.

 

Yes, I hope that Aikido_Girl knows that NOBODY here has any ill will towards her (why should we?) and that people sincerely want what's good for her.

Boy do I wish that I had had this kind of resource to check out teachers when I was a teenager.

 

What, so you could have learned how to lop heads off as a youngster ?

Sorry... couldn't resist that !

 

Aikido Girl is allowed by her parents to view this thread, but not to post on it at the moment. Her parents seem more concerned about the thread than about the safety of the dojo and I've advised her to get them to check it out thoroughly. I'm making no specific allegations, but I believe in general unless there are checks on such instructors, they should not be running classes - and especially not with children, where there are other risks apart from injury..

I have a personal view that ANY instructor who teaches children should be checked out as thoroughly as a school teacher. You can't teach PE in a school in the UK unless you have had police checks (to eliminate paedophiles) and proved your qualifications are valid. I'm sure most parents would be horrified if they knew how easy it is for anyone here in the UK (and the States?) to set up a dojo and get their hands on young boys and girls. Don't they value their kids enough to check them out? I think that parents may be assuming that there is some kind of agency watching out for their kids - there isn't, and it's time there was!

Aikido Girl has asked me in a PM to let everyone know the following:
QUOTE:
'...would you tell them that I did not find anything to certify Mr. Hummerstone in Aikido yet, but I am still looking. I did find something on philippine martial arts, but I have yet to look into that, because I keep forgetting the name of the person who signed the certificates. I still have many "certificates" and such to look at, but so far, no real news.'
As she is able to read responses, please be constructive!

 

kiaiki, you have a good point about checking out the qualifications and background of an instructor. When I was starting karate as a teenager, unbeknownst to me, my mother had a full law enforcement background check done on my potential instructor and interviewed several law enforcement people to get their opinion on the instructor.

I only found out what my mother had done a little while later when she told me all this GOOD stuff about my instructor that others had said. Now I was taking karate at a local YMCA and here was this guy who to me was just Sensei and my mother is telling me he is famous or something. I only knew him as a great teacher, then about a month later I was at a store and there was my instructor on the cover of Karate Illustrated magazine.

Other than just to tell a story, I want to say that I don't agree that Aikido Girl should get caught up in the politics of martial arts at 12-13 years old. I fully agree that her parents use available and legal methods to get a background check on whomever is in care of their daughter, and if they want to further that by checking out the qualifications of the instructor, organization, and affiliations, then that is good too.

I feel that Aikido Girl has the right to question what she feels the need to be answered but like I said, I don't think it good to push her into the world of politics in martial arts. Martial arts politics can really be messy.

And before someone says it isn't political but only about the said qualifications of an individual... I will just say that we are dealing with high black belt ranks.

 

Kiaiki,

Thanks for getting back to us on this, as a contributor to the thread I would like to feed back to Aikido Girl and of course her parents and say that I do apologise if any comment (sarcastic or otherwise) has caused **undue** concerns however; I do still hold the opinion (and that is all it is) that the individual claiming to teach Aikido at her particular school may well be attempting to do so under fraudulent means.

As an Aikido instructor myself, a certified children's coach with qualifications from our Governing Body here in the UK I'm VERY aware of the potential problems associated with teaching young adults, never mind attempting to do this without first actually having a credible lineage, qualifications and insurance.

As an individual ALL my qualifications - Dan grades, Insurance, Coaching and Instructor certification, Health & Safety documentation such as Risk Assessments and first aid documents are always freely available to ANYONE wishing to join the dojo. I cannot see any logical reason why this information would be wilfully held back from students wishing to legitimately quantify their instructor's credentials.

Well... Yes I can actually. When the person claiming qualifications doesn't really have them or, their worth is so transparent (IE Self awarded) They know these documents will be seen-through after anything other than a cursory glance by someone who might actually know what to look for.

One might also ask the question, "Why do some instructors get so defensive when asked about their lineage or qualifications?"

Again there isn't any particular reason why someone with the documentation they claim should be willing to with-hold their students or prospective students for seeing them and, asking questions about who issued the paperwork and from which organisation.

The long and the short of this is, these people get defensive when there's something to hide.

Any instructor who tells his students that his/her qualifications are only divulged to the 'inner sanctum' of senior students or, that is it's a plain old "secret" is just leading the unsuspecting up the proverbial garden path to being conned.

As a person (never mind a martial arts instructor myself) I am alarmed when I see, read about of come in to contact with people (mainly westerners) who proclaim they've created their own form of martial art.

The fact is that there are very few REALLY talented martial artists in this world who could legitimately formulate a 'new' system from experiences of other established arts, and those that do (I'll use the founder of Aikido as an example) Have spent a considerable amount of time actually mastering the established systems BEFORE they develop something for themselves. This time scale is 20-30-40 decades in length and you would not expect someone with a western origin, studying outside of Japan (for instance) being in a position to do this.

The addage "A jack of all trades and Master of none" springs to mind

It has been my experiences that people who study a martial art(s) for a period of time then, go off having gained a few black belt grades and formulate something else, do so for three key reasons.

1, Because they ultimately can't hack the orthodox art particularly well
2, Their ego has got the better of them and they want more
3, A combination of 1 & 2

None of these examples bode a person well if they wish to start teaching others.

Can I confirm that this is in fact the school being refered to :

http://www.aiki-tora-ryu.com/

Kind regards

 

This is a general comment and not referring to this specific thread:

To me, the issues of child safety and fraud are separate.

Even if a dojo is ultra-safe and even if the sensei wrote the book on child protection, if anyone is teaching something that's fake or made up while claiming to be qualified, they are frauds.

IMO, even if no-one is ever injured, frauds are still thieves -- stealing people's money and more importantly, their time.

 

Yeh... I can't argue that Nick, absolutely correct

Regards

 

and if frauds cut off people's heads in class while not really qualified to do it, that's just the worst isn't it?

 

I almost spat my diet coke all over the monitor reading that !

 

Considering the very forcefull attacks and opinions that welcomed a 12 year old girl to the forum who only wanted to discuss Aikido that's hardly surprising. Even now you know how old she really is you're still pushing your point just as forcefully unwilling and unable to let it go. Personally I wouldn't like my neice who studies Aikido to be exposed to such annimosity from grown adults.

Sometimes you just have to trust parents to do their job and mind your own business no matter how good your intentions are.

I don't know how things work in England or in the USA but here in Scotland my local authority does perform checks on all groups who deal with children. So far as I'm aware the local authority conducts the same checks on martial arts teachers as it does for classroom assistants. I've personally had to provide two character references in recent years.

 

I think you make a reasonable point mate however, these forums exist to disseminate information, good, bad or indifferent about martial arts.

The opinions expressed in this thread (all be it some emotive in nature) are the honest opinions of those who posted (well mine are anyway), and while I do believe it is Aikido_Girl's parents responsibility (and not ours) to care for their child in every respect, including vetting the people responsible for her martial arts instruction, these forums don't exist for moral or ethical purposes thus; if a person registers and then posts a thread asking for opinions, that’s EXACTLY what they'll get, its not our (members) job to exercise moral or ethical judgment each time they post based on who's posting (and by that, I mean in this instance; checking the user profile to ascertain age before making a reply).

Unfortunately the internet is a faceless media where opinions expressed can and often are read with a multitude of differing interpretations, that's just the way it is. It’s a shame the same 'caution' being exuded by Aikido-Girl's parents now in relation to this thread/forum wasn't brought to bear in relation to the legitimacy of "Shihan Hummerstone" and the providence of his ability/qualifications to teach Aikido, but then why would they ? Simply because up till now they knew no better.

If this thread and its contents finally expose a potential problem with the likes of these fools who proclaim themselves "Grandmaster" "10th dan" etc and then rely on Soke Councils to provide legitimacy for those pathetic titles. I feel anyone who has expressed concerns will have done a service.

I have already expressed my apologies to any concerns which my posts may have caused but, I will not and do not apologise for holding opinions about frauds and conmen in the martial arts community.

Regards as always

 

I appreceiate your mature attitude Dave and for understanding my point.

 

Agreed mate... It IS a very valid point. The problem (for want of a better expression) is that the registration process for forums such as these aren’t fool-proof, at the end of the day none of us really know who we're dealing with on line which; is why I personally pay absolutely no attention to the public profile of forum members.

Regards

 

Aikiwolfie - I hope you are not accusing me of conscious animosity towards a 12 year old, which would be professionally insulting.

Firstly, at the start of this thread, I was totally unaware of her age. Who was??
Since we found out - we have all apologised and modified what we say - and I also made members aware of her permission to read threads, if not to post. Yoda also thanked me for the quality of my PM reply to her.

Secondly, the animosity (which I would call advice to her drawn from healthy scepticism - and then justifiable ridicule) was directed at her Sensei's total lack of any credibility to practise - NOT AT HER.

I have been a professional dealing with children for many years (as an Assistant Headteacher in my last job) so please don't lecture me about dealing with minors. You have simply misinterpreted things, IMHO, and become a little 'holier than thou'. Can't be bothered to check all MAP threads but I bet I could find animosity from you somewhere. Do you always check all personal profiles before arguing/ criticising etc??

Yes, I have animosity towards frauds who may endanger children, and even more towards those who may exploit the opportunity we have in sport (through lack of police checks) to follow engage in paedophilia. (Physical contact with children is a golden opportunity for them and activities like swimming instruction have long been known as target areas.)

AS far as I know, in England, local authority employees are checked, but ANYONE can hire a hall and run a private kids class. I'm willing to bet that many UK Senseis have been police checked - but not because they run private kids MA classes - probably because they work in the public sector.

If Aikido Girl is exposed to any animosity it is as a witness, not as a victim. She should, if the rules above are quoted correctly, not be on this forum. Are we as members now supposed to check up every time we respond to each other?

I think you need to take a reality check!!

kiaiki (aged 9, IQ 10).

 

Kiaiki your response to my earlier post is exactly why you should take a step back. I said Aikido Girl was exposed to a level of animosity that she shouldn't have been. I am well aware that you didn't know her age. But that is no excuse for jumping in feet first. I know you meant well but you should really let it go this time.

With that said the thread is closed.