Anyone ever done MA weapons in the SCA?

My understanding is that while the same rules of heavy combat apply everywhere, the quality and intensity of training varies drastically, and the group I saw (the Boulder, Colorado group) was very much on the rigorous side of the spectrum. Just like a Shotokan dojo in Oregon may not resemble a Shotokan dojo in London for intensity and training methodology, SCA heavy fighting near you may be very different from what I saw when I was in high school.

A bit of googling revealed that the group I saw is called Caer Galen. I saw it fifteen year ago, but this is what they're doing now. This video is of a local club, not best-of-the-best or international competition:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAgS9PcqfFE"]SCA 10 30 2012 - YouTube[/ame]

 

I think it's actually far more accurate to equate LARPing (I won't continue saying SCA, as my only experience comes from other LARPs) to something like sport fencing (I like sport fencing, I've done it - along with LARP, rapier and longsword).

However for those laughing about how easily blindsided LARPers are I do think some things are probably worthy of note - for one that there are some excellent shield walls which form up at LARP. The largest I've seen was over 120 people strong, consisting of shields and short weapons in the front line, with polearms over the top. It's a very different style of pretend-combat to the duels that are (for some reason) what you classically see in videos - and I would challenge anyone to blindside a group of decent formation fighters in LARP.

Skirmishers tend to be naturally lower quality, in the same way that in FPS games, paintball, or any similar team sport the better players get snapped up by clans and drilled in team play - the soloists are generally the ones without the same level of skill.

 

The SCA does not use foam. At all. They use hard and thick Rattan wood. Positive contact is a necessity. Meaning you have to hit hard or the opponent does not have to count the blow.

I still see plenty of value for people to practice weapons and be able to go at it full tilt even if the grappling and all that is not allowed.

 

You do headbutts full-contact with just a fencing mask on? How often are people seriously injured?

Headbutts are banned from boxing and MMA for a reason. They're nasty things when done full-contact to a resisting opponent. And a fencing mask isn't remotely designed to protect against that sort of impact.

 

That depends entirely on where (and when) you are talking about. Most medieval European swords were not even that sharp. And they relied on the weight of the weapon to do damage. Against armored opponents a sharp edge is generally meaningless. You could take a Katana and scrape it on chain mail all day long and it would not do anything to it. And certainly not against Plate Armor.

 

This also depends on how much armor and where. I work with professional Jousters (meaning people who actually joust for real) and the armor they wear would and does stop real swords. As for harpooning and all that we have people wearing plate armor who get poked with lances wielded by people who are on horseback and the armor protects them just fine.

Now, not everyone in the SCA wears this kind of armor. But it's important to note that a lance strike from someone on horseback is far more powerful then anything a human being is going to deliver.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bN5jTYA9YPU"]Cynagua Coronet May 2011 - Duke Sean and Duke Uther - YouTube[/ame]

Do you see any foam on the rattan sticks in this video? No. Because there is not any. They duct tape them sometimes to keep them from splintering but the SCA has minimum armor rules because they swing heavy rattan at each other. Some of the polearms are made of hardwood.

Not sure where you got the idea that SCA uses foam. They do not. And have not. Their children's division does.

 

Have you ever worn Medieval plate armor? See my previous Jousting point. People are still jousting wearing that stuff now. And I don't mean play jousting I mean real wood being used to try and blow you off your saddle. The armor will protect you.

 

Thank you for this point. I think it is also really important to point out that not all LARPs are the same by a long shot. My LARP fights really hard, and when I get home I generally feel like I played tackle football all weekend. I have played other LARPs where it's more like a game of foam tag and I am not sore or bruised at all when I get home. These LARP's usually have rules against charging, and a bunch of other stuff that really nerfs everything.

I am part of a group that fights in formations as a specialty. And we practice usually once a week. We fight with large shields backed up by polearms. Is it real combat? No it's not. But at least I am not sitting at my computer clicking on monsters in World of Warcraft. Personally I think that is a lot more "loserish". (It's ok to play video games. Just saying. Making fun of LARPers for getting off their ass and doing something physical is stupid.)

My LARP also allows grappling with permission from the person you are grappling with. I still remember the day someone made the mistake of asking me if he could grapple and ended up Judo Hip Tossed to the ground.

 

Now to bring us back to my original point. This is not about suggesting that the SCA is the best combat simulation ever. What I asked was whether or not anyone had ever taken their MA weapon skills and used them in the SCA.

Say for example, a Kali/Escrima paired stick fighter? If they were wearing SCA style armor or even the plastic stuff some people use you could go at it far more intensely.

And while being good with an SCA "sword" is not the same thing as a real "sword" I know some SCA fighters that could give A Kali fighter a serious run for their money in stick vs. stick.

If I had a shield I am pretty confident I could do well and I have not done any SCA.

 

Not in SCA, no, but have done in various other LRP systems.

 

Cool. How did it go for you? Were you able to transfer anything?

Many years ago I had a friend who was ranked by Maatsaki as a Shidoshi and used a polearm. But the LARP he was playing was kind of light contact. You could certainly tell the difference though.

In my current LARP there is a former college level fencer who does extremely well.

Final example I can think of is also not SCA, but a friend of mine was portraying a Samurai type character and took Iado and his footwork and precision were off the chain.

 

I did, though it was SCA rapier fencing, not SCA heavy fighting. I played around with an SCA guy under SCA rules for an afternoon with a background in competitive FIE epee. I had no trouble at all adapting. Parries are parries, distance is distance, point control is point control, and speed is speed. Yes, he had back-hand techniques and tried to draw-cut and used more circular footwork than I did, but at least then I found that it rarely affected the outcome of a touch.

 

Sorry Mitlov but this statement is just plain wrong on many levels. In the majority of FMA the stick is a training device (like a pell) for teaching sword skills. Stick skills are kindof a by-product, and if you listen to Matt Thornton or the dog brothers, many of the "stick" techniques aren't that useful with a stick (because they're designed to be used with a blade). Think of it as being like European single-stick.
While I suspect that the competitor in question was probably utilising his Espada Y Daga (sword and dagger) skills, Kali does contain shield and buckler work, as well as staff, spear and axe (indeed, there's even blowpipe).

 

Kali does shield work????? SIGN ME UP!

 

These guys train really hard for the crown tourneys. I think anyone can learn from that.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdNL5_IMnoA&feature=relmfu"]HE Sir Sagan "the Kingmaker" teaches Practice vs. Training Part 1 3/20/10 - YouTube[/ame]

I wish the original video was still up, but Duke Uther's pell drill is awesome. It is about being able to throw a shot at any angle from any shot at any angle. I use it often and have noticed a huge benefit.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_xckptsluE&playnext=1&list=PL75947C62653767D4&feature=results_video"]Duke Uther Pell drill - YouTube[/ame]

 

oops, didn't mean pell, I meant waster.

 

I stand corrected. The people I've known who have trained in FMA have mainly done stick stuff, so that's what I associate with FMA. But that raises a question...if a stick is an effective training tool for fighting with a Filipino machete or sword, why wouldn't a rattan stick with a basket-hilt be an appropriate proxy for, say, a basket-hilted claymore or some other variety of western European sword?

After all, the US Navy used singlestick as training for the backsword...

 

They're cheap and available. Remember in Europe the sword was a weapon for professional soldiers, it was financially viable to produce a better training tool. Also in Kali you do pay attention to the striking edge.
Crucially as well, with Kali and singlestick your typically addressing a shorter blade (a Bolo and a Cutlass) so heft and balance are less of an issue.

 

No it's not because he is entirely on the wrong foot for using that weapon.

The Bear.