Antony Cummins, author of Shinobi Soldiers et al - a discussion about his background

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Manga, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    No, if I wasn't right there, it more than likely happened faster than I would've seen it. All I saw was you coming back from your ban, me trying to make one post to keep you out of trouble, and then all hell broke loose.
  2. benkyoka

    benkyoka one million times

    You look the worst. You look petty, and ignorant, and annoying, and confused. You look terrible. (so does Antony, btw.)
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  4. trollmaker

    trollmaker Banned Banned

    lol its not so much what was said against Antony lol i could care less about that its the reaction i got once i started asking the right questions
    ans revenge lol no that would be me going way farther no no this is me just wanting to be an ass to others that get all big headed over having administrative powers on a site its like a fast food manager thinking there top dawg simply cause some other idiot gave them a job they didn't want to do.
  5. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    Are the questions you asked still around or are those the ones that got deleted?
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    But this isn't a democracy - there are rules and if you break then there are consequences. You shouldn't have signed on if you didn't agree.

    Now you are trying to present yourself as a crusader for freedom rather than just a trolling asshat - yet another spectacular fail
  7. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    Okay, what were the original questions from the first ban? From what I could tell, the first ban was for nothing more than a lack of punctuation in your posts. None of your questions seemed any different from what we usually see around here and most of the people here are pretty used to that type of stuff. I can't remember anything you asked bothering me in the least.

    Up until you started receiving warnings, you actually were being given ample opportunity to speak and say whatever you liked. It was only the fact that you refused to add any punctuation to your posts that you got banned. Go back and look at the posts where you were warned about the punctuation thing. I didn't see anything stating you're not allowed to ask uncomfortable questions. Sheesh, this is the Ninjutsu subform. We've been dealing with that for years. Not a big deal at all.
  8. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    Okay, I think I see what you're getting at. This subforum isn't run like any other area of MAP. Because of all the crazy bickering that happens around here (quite often, unfortunately), the Moderators for the whole site decided that since people here cannot play nice for the majority of the time, that they will be kept under strict lock and key. For people coming in here expecting a normal forum experience, it's more than a little shocking. You might notice that I like to go enjoy other parts of the site and that's because it's run more like a regular forum. There's no way I'd get away with maybe 20 percent of what I get to enjoy on the rest of the site if I tried the same thing in here.

    See how you just got all mad and came back here looking to kick ass? That's the type of thing that got this area locked down to the way it is today. But this current development is the consequence of years of that type of stuff from people who came and went long before you came here looking for info. See how long this takes to explain? That's why the Moderators just pointed you to the sticky notes about the lockdown around here with the hopes you'd read them and understand this subforum was crapped on a long time ago.

    It wasn't anything personal. But that's probably why things went down the way they did.
  9. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    I remember some of those questions. My answers are the same as my original ones. Check Chris Parker's posts and see what you think. Also check Manga's posts since those might seem the most controversial to you depending on whether or not you have any leaning toward Antony's stuff.

    Chris was only ever polite in trying to reach out to Antony. No slam posts there at all. Many of the slam posts came because Antony came here intentionally looking to insult people and get them riled up. He then admitted he loved doing it for the negative publicity. See how the Moderators upset you with their actions and how you came back looking for a fight? Why wouldn't people respond the same way to Antony when he admitted he came here looking to start a fight and loved the fact that he'd ****ed people off?

    Why would someone need to resort to such tactics if their research materials were so solid that they'd sell themselves on credibility alone?
  10. trollmaker

    trollmaker Banned Banned

    and for another thing about the TOS you agree to when you sign on via terminal you never see a TOS its pretty much like viewing everything on a ftp file the sign in is kinda like what you would see on a dos command prompt when singeing on as an admen for your pc not all graphics are shown and thats just do to bad site building so i never agreed to anything in all honesty.
  11. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    Are you able to see the sticky posts and normal posts here? And are you able to utilize punctuation if you're logged on via terminal?
  12. bujingodai

    bujingodai Active teacher now. Supporter

    Closed, yet again. Til the Mods can clean up the garbage
  13. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Thread cleaned and reopened.
  14. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    Thought this might be of interest. And it'd be interesting to have the Mods verify this. Right before I logged out earlier today, the one pulling all the trolling mentioned they had to go to the studio.

    Here's an interesting coincidence:

    From Twitter:

    HistoricalNinjaAntony Cummins

    First day of filming done!!! I am sunburnt to death. But lots of Samurai and Ashigaru and even a ninja!

    6:39 AM June 8th or 7 hours or so prior to this post.

    That was around the same time the comment was made about needing to head to the studio. Coincidence?

  15. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    I very much doubt it was a coincidence
  16. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member


    Antony made an appearance on a link of Stephen Hayes' on facebook yesterday, which has prompted me to post the following. For reference, the thread on facebook is here:!/permalink.php?story_fbid=214212745280938&id=91837599326

    Antony has made a number of claims regarding the authenticity of the the Bujinkan-related arts, as they have been presented (in his estimation, I might say), claiming that the entire syllbus and teachings of the Bujinkan arts are classed as "Ninjutsu" (which is not the case, and hasn't been close to the case since the 80's, when the Bujinkan was taught under the banner headline of Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu). He then extrapolates that out to claiming that the arts are not legitimate, as he restricts his interpretation of ninjutsu to be the specific espionage/stealth skill set, which is not, according to Antony, a martial art (for the record, I classify espionage as a military skill set, therefore a martial art, so we'd still disagree there....). This has him claiming that anyone teaching a physical combative system as "Ninjutsu" is "total and utter crap" (and still doesn't see how this can be taken as offensive? Hmm).

    In essence, Antony is claiming to be the only person presenting this information and image of the ninja and ninjutsu, and that certainly the Bujinkan and related organisations aren't. I'd like to present a few quotes from another authors book here.

    In other words, the author here is stating that the actual core teachings of Ninjutsu are centred around avoiding conflict or violence, and are to do with avoiding detection, and avoiding even being a target for attack. The author in fact then continues to cover some of these teachings, which come directly out of Togakure Ryu itself, and are non-combative (very strictly Ninjutsu).

    The author goes on to provide the list, taken from the Shoninki, as well as providing some description of such methods. This goes against Antony's idea that he is the only one providing such source information, or that the Bujinkan goes against such old texts.

    This list is presented in the book when the author was correcting misinterpretation of the realities of the Ninja to a movie-maker wanting to make a "ninja movie". The list comes from the Shoninki, again a text that Antony claims the Bujinkan methods go against, and something that has been used (sourced from Antony) to give some "higher credibility" to groups such as Christa Jacobson's "Budo Ryu" group. pg 166

    These are but a few examples taken from a single book which completely removes Antony's idea that what he is saying is not what is taught in the Bujinkan schools, or that he is the only one "telling the truth!" about this subject.

    The book all of the above quotes come from is "Ninpo: Wisdom for Life" by Hatsumi Masaaki (the first quotes from page 50, the second ones refering to the walking methods on page 80, and the last on page 166, for reference). I might point out that Antony has consistently claimed that the Bujinkan, and Hatsumi in particular, have refered to their teachings as all being Ninjutsu, yet this book was printed a year before Antony even started his training with Ste Powell in the first place, so the information he is putting forward as "revolutionary", and his attempt to get to the "truth" as he sees it, is very much old news to people in the arts, which he has been told since he started this little crusade.

    One last relevant quote from Hatsumi's book is found on page 41, seems a good one to end on, as it sums up the real issues with Antony and his approach:

  17. paulinho

    paulinho Valued Member

    So is the real issue here that AC is making a career out of regurgitating others peoples material and passing it off as ground breaking?

    I still think he makes some valid points but nothing that I haven't heard before.
  18. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Hmm, not really. One of the big issues is that he has no real qualifications in this area, and is doing what he can to discredit the Takamatsu-den, although his actual problems with it stem far more from him not knowing what on earth he's talking about than there being the issues he's stating. The biggest example is him saying that the Bujinkan and Hatsumi have been lying to everyone for thirty years, saying that all he is teaching is Ninjutsu. That, simply, isn't the case, ever since Andy Adams' book in the early 70's, Hatsumi has been talking about each of the different arts he teaches. Koto Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, Kukishin Ryu, and Shinden Fudo Ryu are all mentioned along with Togakure Ryu, although Adams only refered to Hatsumi's teachings as Ninjutsu.

    Seriously, Antony just has an agenda based on lack of knowledge and qualifications, and despite having these things pointed out to him repeatedly, he has not listened or adapted to the new information. Not ideal for a "researcher".
  19. skuggvarg

    skuggvarg Valued Member

    Its becoming interesting...
    This ones snapped from the youtube page of Mr Cummins:
    As a matter of fact he has taken down the whole "An investigation into the Bujinkan" sub section..

    Interesting..Just when he launced 2 videos that actually seemed to proove the existance of Togakure ryu he now deletes everything....

    Regards / Skuggvarg
  20. fundamental

    fundamental Valued Member

    Links please :)

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