Antony Cummins, author of Shinobi Soldiers et al - a discussion about his background

Take any previous issues with AC and BBT out of the picture. Even if you look at it just as some guy demonstrating technique then, true, it looks like the same stuff he learned while wearing his black belt. But that stuff also looks like crap. I know you already know this, but if you intend to actually do any damage when hitting someone, that egg is going to break from the force of the yolk and the white accelerating through the thin outer shell. Or, you're just going to crush the thing if you didn't already throw it at their eyes to distract them.

Imagine someone really attacking you and wanting to smash your face in. Are you going to hit them with punches that wouldn't break an egg or are you going to actually hit them? Even a scrawny guy like his uke would respond quite a bit differently to AC's love taps if he found AC in bed with his wife. Can you imagine any of those love taps actually working against some ****ed off drunk guy?

The video is supposed to be demonstrating "bone on bone" which means you're hitting hard enough for the force to travel quite a bit inward and damage the bone beneath the muscle. And there's no way that's not going to break an egg held in the hand. Love to see him try that against a heavy bag. But, in all fairness, it does look a lot like what he was taught. Plus, I hear he uses cinnamon flavored toothpaste instead of mint. And as he reminded everyone earlier, ninjas want to smell minty when they go out on missions.

Not having a go at you, George. Playing Devil's Advocate can be a good thing. But imagine if someone paid for that level of instruction and went out, fully confident it would work, and ran into problems at a pub? If he's going to teach, he needs to approach it as if he understands he's taking people's lives into his hands. And suggesting that you can perform "koppojutsu" in a realistic setting without breaking an egg held in hand is both irresponsible and ignorant.

 

Ooohhhh....you puddin' stirrer... :whistle:

 

I agree 100% with you.
My one and only point is that you could,and indeed should ,say the same about most instructional videos.I have seen worse,much much worse from "kan"groups.

 

Pity it can never happen.

 

Then you need to ask the person(s) most closely linked with Takamatsu. Which would seem to be Hatsumi.

 

So now we have it .No need for any further discussion on anything related to Takamatsu or related martial arts.
simply post the stock answer
"Ask Hatsumi"
That makes things a lot simpler.

 

But it would be Hatsumi's version, not Takamatsu's. So you would still not have a 100% take on it, because it's now Hatsumi's ideal. Which is not wrong, but also jumps to the other thread on transmission, that the original is lost to history. A simpler version would be Chinese whispers.

 

Nope.

It's been explained loads of times now.

Transmission isn't about "things" being passed on in an identical manner, it's about the ryu-ha and its teachings, the essential elements. Things will be added and mixed around over the evolution of a system but what the Ryu-ha is for will remain. You could well find that just because something wasn't active that doesn't mean it wasn't retained in the teachings, not necessarily passed on to all but to the important members.

Also you might want to look at certain ryu-ha that split into different lines due to members moving to a different geographical area. Now when these lines came back together years latter you have instances of teachings and waza still being the same between lines.

So even though they continued to develop after their isolation you still have the same teachings or waza being seen in related lines of the same school, despite them being effectively isolated from one another for a period of years.

BBT being a different kettle of fish in some ways but you could argue that BBT is the distillation of the lessons taught to Hatsumi Sensei, an almagamation of the essence of the nine schools.

You also have to consider the a degree of indoctrination which takes place, the Ryu-ha does not fit to you, you fit to the Ryu-ha. You might work the waza in an appropriate manner for your body but when you teach them you teach them as the ryu-ha dictates.

 

It sure does make it simple. If you want to know if Hatsumi is moving 'properly' or the way he was taught to move by Takamatsu you need to talk to the currently-alive person who was closest to Takamatsu and that is Hatsumi.

How would you argue otherwise?

You have two choices, really. Believe what he says or don't.

 

A side note on the copyright stuff...

The fact that the image in question is on Commons means it can be used quite freely - not totally without restrictions in all cases, though, it depends.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:YoshiClimber.jpg
In this case, the copyright has expired since the artist died in 1892. So no copyright applies, whatsoever.

You are not quite right. When you take pictures of Grand Canyon, your skills as a photographer and your choice of angles etc. make a whole lot of a difference. That's why the photography of Grand Canyon passes the threshold of originality, and so copyright applies. A photography of a two dimensional piece of art doesn't, usually. A photo of a sculpture probably does. Thinking about xeroxing an old painting and trying to claim copyright of the xerox copy, it makes sense.

If the photo is not just a photo but work has been done to make the picture "better", removing cracks etc. that can be found in the old original painting, then the situation is somewhat different. Probably there are some such pictures of paintings at the Wikimedia Commons, that should be weeded out, but we could probably assume there is no legal problem whatsoever with the use of this picture on the book cover.

I agree the topic is minor in context.

 

Well many think that the way Hatsumi moves is "the ideal"
Yet if he moved differently,because of who he is,it would still be "the ideal".
No matter how Takamatsu had intended for him to move, in Takamatsus idea of "ideal".
So there is no need to ask anyone because the answer is Hastumi whether he is good , bad or indifferent.

 

Just to put an end to this line of thinking, when it comes to arts like this where the system is "owned" by a single individual who inherrited it from their teacher, then whatever that individual presents should be considered the truth and ideal of it. He is very much the embodiment of said system, and if he decides to change it, or express it differently, then that is his right, and it all remains correct as it is coming from him.

When it comes to Budo Taijutsu, as it is Hatsumi's creation (from his training and experiences over many many decades), he is absolutely right to be considered the correct example of the art, with the caveat that his personal way of moving is as much to do with his age as his training (although the basic principles, flow, timing, and all other things that make it a martial art distinct from just Hatsumi "doin' stuff" should be applied by all members of the Bujinkan as related to their own personal age/experience/understanding, not just simply copied for the sake of moving like an 80 year old man without getting why he moves the way he does).

EDIT: Just to bring this back to the thread topic, this is one of the major issues Antony has in understanding the "traditional" nature of these arts; where they change and where they don't. For example, his whole "uniform" crusade, complaining that the "karate gi" wasn't traditional, as it wasn't worn by Medieval Japanese peasants really misses the entire point. The uniform in the various organizations and Ryu are dictated as much by the current heads of such and commonly accepted convention as any hallmark of the past. Otherwise it's like saying that all JKD practitioners should be wearing flares and bell-bottoms, as that art comes from the seventies....

Okay, I think that's almost back on topic now!


So yes, when it come to Budo Taijutsu, Hatsumi is the ideal, as he is, in no small way, the art. The question is can people differentiate the art from the person performing it?

 

A quick question for those that might have the resources close at hand.

Where exactly did Tony say he never had any certificates, membership cards, etc because he never bothered to pay the dues AND where is it that he talks about how he burnt all those things to explain why he could not show any?

 

He mentions the first bit in that video about getting thrown out of the Bujinkan ,I think.May have been a different video but I have seen it and I dont read anything

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DySNByVNqno"]YouTube - ‪The New "Ninja Suit"‬‏[/ame]

"New Ninja Suit", in which Antony mentions burning his suit/certificates (what certificates? I thought he was never a member.....)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xsBMrlkC1E"]YouTube - ‪Antony Cummins Gets Kicked out of the Bujinkan‬‏[/ame]

"Antony Gets Kicked Out Of The Bujinkan" where he confirms that he never paid any membership fees, yet believed he was in a good position to tell Hatsumi how the Bujinkan should be run....

 

Those who have an idea what they're looking at can tell for themselves. You don't get there by imitating someone's movement. He could be standing on his head windmilling his legs and it wouldn't matter if he conveyed a legitimate concept with it. Far too many people are too wrapped up in the theatrics and visuals but haven't even begun to understand the substance. That's one hell of a reason to not worry about who might imitate you.

 

Anthony was never kicked out of the Bujinkan this is another lie.
According to nagato sensei in a conversation face to face with me, he clearly stated that Only Ryu De Mendoza was asked to leave the Honbu and no one else has been.

Also on Face book back in Feb 2011 in a thread he clearly confirmed that he was in the bujinkan and teaching it

He posts one thing here, another thing somewhere else and something somewhere else all related all contradicting because he thinks he is the only person in more than one place.

I have never ever met anyone in my life in real life or on line who lies, contradicts himself and deceives people almost daily in the way that he does.

He clearly has a complext where he feels he has to be the centre of attention and the need to be loved by everyone. A fool to himself

 

I got to thinking about Antony's claims and studies into "real" ninjutsu. I would imagine it is more along the lines of something like this, and definitely not what we learn in the X-Kans.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekiZYSVdeQ"]YouTube-‪How Not To Be Seen‬‏[/ame]

 

and don um what good would the name of a sishi sheaf do you? lol just wondering

 

1. What is a sishi sheaf?

2. Nice question mark.

3. Wrong thread.