An analysis of Holly Holm vs. Ronda Rousey...

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Combat Sports, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    You don't go on MMA forums, do you? Go look at old posts on Sherdog or other similar forums. Trust me, tons of people said Silva was in a weak division and demeaned his accomplishments in this way.

    Yes, WMMA is behind men's MMA overall, but that doesn't make that a weak division. Just behind the men. Which is to be expected. Look at the development of Men's MMA since it started.
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Fine, I'll caveat. I never heard anyone who knew anything about MMA say the 185lb division was weak. If anything, it was weakened because of Silva. Fighters like Sonnen moved up a weight class to get away from Silva and fighters like Maia dropped down a weight class when it became clear he wasn't going to make another run at the MW belt.
    The bantamweight division is the strongest women's division (again, because its one of the middleweight divisions), but that's a lot bar in WMMA. There are a lot of very mediocre fighters in that division, which is why Rousey tore through them.
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It isnt weak, but it is shallow
  4. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I actually don't think 115 has this problem. The current champion is an excellent fighter and still has to work very hard to keep her title, and the number 1 contender took her to a split decision. Women's Bantamweight needs a lot of work but there are tons of great fighters at 115.
  5. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I suppose I should.

    But...that would cost me moneys.


    aaradia; I posted a 'joke' video which had Holm winning against Tate ( the joke was on me as it turned out :eek: ) You stated that there was no way that Holm could beat Tate (TBH, that was my view, as well)

    Do you still stand by that?

    That's one of the questions that need to be answered - and can only be answered by HH being allowed to fight the next couple of strong contenders - Tate, McMann, etc., regardless of the projected PPV numbers.

    Those of you who follow boxing; don't you wish to see Gennady Golovkin fight? To see if he really is one of the greats? He doesn't bring in PPVs (He doesn't speak English and Americans, those highly educated :rolleyes:, world-savy lot that we are, can't relate to him)

    That doesn't mean that we should loose the opportunity to see a truly talented fighter work - because the industry still works on an outdated PPV scheme...



    RR's post-fight reaction is something I'd not anticipated and I'm beginning to have doubts. I've never seen a fighter, male or female, react this way before.

    Its highly indicative that loosing possible film role's, modelling contracts in the works, is first and foremost on her mind and that puts much more of a big question mark on RR returning at all; more so than it normally would on other fighters who have a more limited range of options.

    Putting HH on the shelf to rust would be utterly contemptuous of WMMA and a clear indication that White & Co. don't give a flip about WMMA - about really building up the division the right way. That they saw Ronda as a goose that may've lain her last golden egg and the the rest of the division was only trappings for that end.

    Hope I'm dead wrong.
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Ronda hiding her face makes sense if she badly broke her nose (holm's elbow) during the fight.
    Ronda has denied this already, but then financially she would.
  7. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    She knows that those photographers are looking to make money out of her split lip. Why wouldn't she cover her face to spite those parasites? I would.
  8. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Naw, naw...missing the point. Something larger at stake than the vulture-cams.

    Even if it were nothing more than a badly swollen eye, it would make sense for her to cover up if she can make as much or more being hit by a make-up artist's powder brush as she would being hit by a shin or elbow at full force.

    No contest.

    She's covering up because she's protecting more lucrative options. Of course, she very well could change her mind later on, but I'd say at this point she's thinking strongly of not continuing something that would potentially endanger those options.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
  9. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    The reason it is shallow and probably weak is the reason RR won all her fights and why I thought she would win this one, women’s combat sports in general compared to the men is shallow as hell, judo is the only competitive female sport which is full time, has a deep talent pool and attracts world class athletes
    Women’s wrestling, BJJ and even striking isn’t that close, hence when RR made the move to MMA she found she was facing opponents nowhere near her physical ability or her experience in full on competition and handled them as such. I honestly didn’t think HH was near her level because women’s boxing and kickboxing is nowhere near as competitive as women’s judo

    Just goes to show what having a decent coach and a sound game plan can do for you
  10. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    Again though, I don't think this problem exists at 115. Joanna has competitive fights for her title, and the number 1 contender took her to a split decision before she had it. Something nobody has ever done to Ronda. There are a lot of good fighters at 115 which has in my view been the superior women's division right from it's start.
  11. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Is this not because none of the fighters at 115 are particularly great? The top 10 at 135 looks competitive once you take Rousey out of the picture. If someone came in at 115 with Rousey's pedigree and athleticism, it might show up a lot of holes.

    All that being said, I do think Jędrzejczyk's combat sports pedigree is stronger than most WMMA fighters.
  12. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    135 has maybe 4 fighters I would call elite quality. 115 has far more. Michelle Waterson, Tecia Torres, Claudia Gadhella, Rose Namajunas, etc are all excellent fighters. There are many matches you can make in that division that are exciting.
  13. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Honestly, I'm meh about all the fighters you listed there.

    And frankly I scoff at the idea of Rose Namajunas being considered an excellent fighter. She's literally the epitome of how far you can get WMMA without good technique. She is the Cathal Pendred of WMMA.
  14. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    Well it wouldn't be the first time we disagreed. Or the first time you have been wrong. :)
  15. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Haha - yeah, I might keep my head down on this one before she goes on a tear.
  16. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    On TUF 20, she demolished everyone in her path until Carla, and did some damage to Carla as well. I strongly believe that the only reason we haven't seen her shine yet is that she has had bad luck on her opponents dropping out of fights. She is up against Paige now, we shall see. I am kind of surprised you don't feel she has good technique. Her boxing is solid, her TKD is solid, and her BJJ is very aggressive and agile.

    What is it specifically you don't like?
  17. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Exactly what I said. She's like Pendred. All heart and guts and chin and power but she's a bull in a china shop.
  18. babagua

    babagua New Member

    Ronda Rousey was just overrated. Her promoters saying that she could even take on male fighters like Floyd Mayweather, I thought that was really stupid and I can't believe that people fell for it. I'm glad that Holly Holm came to MMA and put an end to these delusions.
  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

  20. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

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