An analysis of Holly Holm vs. Ronda Rousey...

i know. muay thai too, if memory serves. that makes it no less amusing.

 

Ronda says she is taking some time off so apparently no immediate rematch.

 

Yeah, that was the moment I knew there was pretty much no chance for Ronda to win the fight.

I mean yeah, Holly wasn't getting taken down on Ronda's terms and it wasn't easy and Holly's punches were clearly stinging. But up until that moment, I still thought there was a chance Ronda could've taken Holly to the ground, at which point my money would have been on Ronda.

 

I, for one, am wound up by Dana's continued gushing about all things wonderful and Ronda instead of getting behind Holly and supporting her.

One can almost hear him telling Holly, (in Obiwan's voice) "You were supposed to have brought balance to the division, not destroy it!"

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It keeps being mentioned here and other places that all RR needs is a decent striking coach and she'll be right as reign.

I'm not so sure of that.

Its more than just learning how to deliver power shots. The really important lessons to be learned from boxing involve feinting, picking one's shots, playing mouse in order to draw the cat in.

Learning those require patience and the willingness to seemingly be giving ground to an opponent - to be perceived by an opponent as retreating at times, to lay traps...learning to weave these in without changing her fundamental approach - and therefore the things that have made her successful up to this point - may take time...a lot of time.

One can look back now and see how very smart HH was in going about this - she didn't just say "I'm a champion boxer, get some kicking lessons in and striking is covered", as has been mentioned here, Holm went on to compete in six or so KB fights - thats all of the work going into, training, prepping, learning as if Holm were preparing for a career in KB - in order to integrate those important aspects of striking into her arsenal.

All with no fanfare ( and the accompanying pressure which would have been distracting ). HH had no multi-million dollar film contracts to think of, no legacy to protect, no rabid media attention speculating on her every move...HH was able to fly under the radar and acquire what she needed in the calm, rational, patient way that she deployed those same skills.

Think Dana and Co will be patient for RR to do this, even if it were possible? Once things calm down, so will the potential PPVs and receipts that could be generated.

Dana is already talking about a possible rematch for UFC 200 , from what I gather...

 

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RR is that rare breed a world class athlete with a hard work ethic, she was back training the next day after allot of her title defences.

She doesn't need to learn the finer parts of boxing, just as HH didn't need to become a world class judoka or BJJ brown belt, she needs to learn solid fundamentals and to learn how to use them to enter her range and do her thing. I dont think anyone doubts RRs work ethic or that given the right trainers she could wreck the division again, heck she managed to wreck it without good coaching, people just question the intelligence of her trainers.

Whether after close to two decades + of international competition she has the heart for more training when she can make more money and get a new challenge elsewhere is another thing altogether

 

I feel that is largely because the UFC invested a lot in the "Ronda Rousey" brand. They just started that "Rousey Revolution" campaign recently and then this happened almost immediately. The money they spent on video promos, etc. Ronda is more physically attractive then Holm. More willing to do things like sexy photo shoots, etc. All in all, more marketable. It should not be an attribute needed in combat sports but it's reality particularly for females.

She needs a CAMP with real resources that can help her at the highest level. Holm didn't just win because of boxing. She won because of the various coaches that are part of Greg Jackson's camp. The partners she worked with, etc. Edmond has no such resources and certainly no competence whatsoever about game plans, etc. So far as the striking coach, not sure if you watched the video I linked in the thread about Edmond in an MMA fight but when you watch Edmond, and everyone he trains in striking is that his defensive strategy seems to literally be to absorb shots. He barely bothers to defend himself at all. Ronda, Shayna, Marina, Duke, etc all have terrible defense. Duke was able to hold on to some of hers because she started out as a striker but literally every one of them gets hit in the face pretty much any time their opponents want. Ronda doesn't need to become a master boxer. What she needs is even basic understanding of how to defend herself on her way to the clinch. Up until now she has always taken shots on her way in and just dealt with it. (She had the chin to do this. Shayna and Marina who are also both grapplers are not so lucky.)

Joanna Champion didn't become a master wrestler or Judoka either. But she trained like crazy on how to stop people from taking her down. Ronda needs to try on how to protect herself from strikers intelligently on the way to the clinch.

There are currently two schools of thought in training an MMA fighter. We are looking ahead to the future and wondering if it's going to be former child athletes like Sage Northcutt, Paige Van Zant, etc. who trained from a young age and then went pro right away who are going to be the new trend setters, or people who did that AND went to world class in some other combat sport first. In the boxing world they talk about the fact that GGG waited a long time to go pro and therefore had a huge amount of ring time in the amateurs before he ever set foot into a pro boxing ring. His last fight was almost painful to watch as he took apart the middle weight champion with ease.

Personally I think Ronda getting an immediate rematch is hogwash. It's not like the fight was in any fashion close. People have to look at it with a clear mind, absent the Rousey hype. When Joanna humiliated Carla Esparza it wasn't even as bad as this and nobody even thought to suggest that Carla deserved an immediate rematch. And to be blunt, I don't even think an immediate rematch is even a good idea for Ronda. Particularly not if she is going to stick with Edmond. Nothing that man is going to teach her is going to create an alternate result. She needs to go back to the drawing board. (And hopefully to a new camp. Still think AKA would be a good match. They are good at making world class grapplers into equally impressive strikers.)

If Ronda gets back into the ring and loses again, her entire brand will crash.

I also suspect that she is considering the same things that Gina Carano did when she retired. She could fight again and risk losing more fights and watch her Hollywood credentials wither, or just retire with one loss and work in Hollywood full time. (Heard the WWE has been making overtures for a while too, she could go the Brock Lesnar route.)

 

I always thought that de-throned Champs get a rematch clause (if so choose), but if I was in the seat, I would give her a contender fight. Maybe a rematch with Alexis Davis or Zigano.

However, money is king and chances are they would aim for UFC 200. Dana has said though, he won't talk about fighting with Ronda until probably next month.

Everything does point that Ronda should be going to a MMA camp. Just see what is available around her or who is willing to have her.

 

If you look at Ronda's structure and footwork issues I wonder how fixable they are. If you look at her competing in Judo her movement is similar so I wonder if it's too deeply ingrained?

 

She's an elite, world class athlete. She can fix it if she wants to fix it.

 

As much as I have criticised her striking (off forum) , I think it should be workable. Plenty of Wrestlers, with low bases and flat feet seem to do OK.

She won't be an amazing striker anytime soon. The issue about being ingrained, I would say would be mentality.
Her team keeps saying they have been bringing in Boxers to spar with her and there is obviously a lot of confidentiality in camps*, but would be interesting to hear/see what their viewpoint was.

*barring the odd instagram video

 

Good points. Ja, I didn't really pay much attention to who's who in her camp up until before this last fight about the time RR's mum started spilling the beans on Tarverdyan. Funny, I do wonder if her mum had some sort of premonition when you look back in hindsight at some of the things mentioned.

With regards to RR not needing to start at square 1 and go the Golden Gloves route - true - I'd said "boxing" but I should have tendered the term to mean that part of boxing which is applicable under the unique idiosyncrasies of the MMA ruleset.

Pure boxing, of course, wouldn't work in this situation but there are defencive elements, conditioned reflexes and timing instincts that can be learned from it and it goes without saying we saw that in Holly's case.

Of course, but there's still the naive, 'purist' part in me that thinks the Champion should be treated like a champion but yes, they have invested heavily in Rousey on many different levels.

Wonder if we'll ever see them do that at quite the same level again after this.

This
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Gash CLF View Post

and this

and

I've wondered. They are fixable - and would be fixed, no questions asked, if this were 2010 or even 2013. The question is, at a deep level, does she really want to fix them?

In terms of chronological age, she's still a youngster; but in terms of what she's been through emotionally and mentally, its a different story altogether.

When you've reached the very pinnacle - you've destroyed everyone that dared cross your path on your way to a World Title and ...what? six? successful defences, the way that you go about things - both the good and the bad - do have to be very deeply ingrained and it wouldn't be a physical hurdle as it would be a mental one - as 'Shroom pointed out.

How much, on a mental/emotional level is Ronda invested in those things that have made her successful?

I recall the comment her mum made of recent regarding this flaw she has - wearing the same knickers in judo match after match because she thought it to bring her good luck...hanging on to bad coaches out of the same thought process...I think all of this taken together may be indicative of a very difficult mental hurdle that Rousey would have to overcome - does she really want to go through that when she's already reached the top?

It would be easy when you're hungry...when you've never tasted success. It would be ridiculously easy for an athlete - even one chronologically older than Rousey.

But this is different. It might feel to her as if she were having to start all over again...to relearn everything - even though that's not the case - its a mental thing.

Yes. You know she has to be thinking of that.

I've had rows with people who were making comments due to the fact that she was hiding her face on the way to her plane and that was somehow proof that she was a coward and other ridiculous nonsense - no, she's thinking about the reaction that potential product sponsors, film deals that might dry up, etc., if they saw her face after a horrific brawl, that initial reaction, not realising its part and parcel to the sport of fighting - that's why she's hiding her face. She's trying to protect her financial interests!


Anyone that knows anything about her, even if they intensely dislike her, knows that Rousey is anything but a coward.

I have to say, I'm amased at the sheer amount of certifiable idiots that the outcome of 193 has brought out from seemingly nowhere.

 

Oh ... did want to leave this - don't know why but it made me a little sad to watch ... must be getting ever soft in me old age.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nDxVjH885o"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nDxVjH885o[/ame]

 

I think the reason she's hiding her face is because of a massively bruised ego (and apparently a split lip) and if I was in her position, I would probably do the same.

You're a very dominant Champ, surrounded by others who tell you that everyday (if you believe what Brendan Schaub has been saying as well) , massive mega star and also immensely influencial World wide...and then to be beaten soundly. I would be coming in via a Private Plane and landing in some remote area where no public can come up to me and start taking photos.

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Also, anyone seen RR kick yet? Only the clinch knee so far....

 

One thing I would add to this is, I think the idea of moving to a better camp is hard for her because it means going from being the top dog to... If it's a camp with a lot of strong male competitors... Starting back over at the bottom.

Had to be lowest person on the totem pole when you were being hyped as a world beater, and buying into that hype.

 

People like to tear their hero’s down, especially after building them up and putting them on a pedestal and finding out there aren’t superman or women.
Ronda didn’t help herself with the way she acted, coming across both immature arrogant and acting a massive heel,

BUT the way she acted in and out of the ring is the reason the UFC sold out its biggest show ever, its also the reason woman’s MMA is on the map, and the reason MMA is being talked about in mainstream sport and on mainstream TV.

People tend to look past those points though because they are too busy sticking the knife into someone they were probably cheering for the past 6 fights

Personally id love to see her fight again, don’t like the persona but the fighter who destroyed 11 of her opponents in the first round, has the fasted finish in UFC history and has 4 performances of the night and two fight of the nights titles is someone I want to see fight again…..but honestly I don’t actually think she will or should, whats left for her to do now she can make a fortune elsewhere

 

Winklejohn is saying that Holly holding back in her first two bouts in the UFC was a calculated move. https://au.sports.yahoo.com/mma/a/30102214/holm-intellectually-superior-winklejohn/

 

No, she's not that type of personality. She used to train with men all the time when she was a judoka.