Aliveness - Alive training methods

Thats because it was a technical instructional, you learn the four options, then isolate spar with them for the decision making part.

 

I don't get how those videos could be called technical sparring.

 

Sorry, we're cross-posting.

So you are both pulling each other around and trying to do throws at the same time?

 

Depending on the stage of the drill, and the clinch position, both can be attempting different throws /or a change of grip position.

From the seminar I attended.

To begin no resistence, just drilling vs feed pressure
Then one person throwing, one just moving trying to keep base.
Then both trying to throw but no change of grips
add in limited change of grips
then full sparring, judo rules starting from the initial position.

all sparring starts low percentage intensity, then ramps up as needed for learning.

 

But do you think that once you have done that drill once without resistance, you should never go back to that mode again?

If unresisted, mindful slow motion practice is showing success in all areas of professional sport, from golf to tennis to swimming, do you think there is any reason why that would not apply to martial arts?

 

Everytime you train it, you start at stage 1, when you have some understanding of timing, motion and energy then you could do more, but by then you realise why thats a waste of time.

If you dont understand, its because youve not undergone it.

nobody gets great by solo practice alone.

imagine doing golf or tennis without the ball, or piano with the keyboard.

 

I think I don't understand because you are saying that you always include non-resistant training in that 4 corners drilling

I've never said that anyone gets great by solo practice alone. But very successful sportspeople do practice without a ball, and they certainly all practice without an opponent. Michael Jordan would constantly practice free throws on his own, Sugar Ray Leonard would practice his punches and footwork in super slow motion with no opponent. Practice without any sportive element of competition is a very common part of many very successful athletes' training regimes.

 

Yes any training I do starts off with no resistence, and then goes up all the way to 100% resistence.

great people sometimes do solo practise, buts that because theyre obsessed, its not the solo practise that makes them great, its the obsesstion born from thousands of hours of training with balls, partners etc.

 

Right, that's the balance I was talking about.

Evidence?

 

Do you know anyone who got good at anything purely with solo practise with no feedback mechanism?

 

Nope. I already said a few times in this thread that it is a balance between unresisted rehearsal and resisted application.

I'm not quite getting the point you're making.

 

The point you were trying to make is that the I method/resistence/judo etc produces people will low technical skill.

Obviously this is not the case.

Its not the solo bit of training that leads to skill, its the training in its entirety.

 

No, the point I was making was that if you only ever practice against people who are trying to prevent you from performing technique, you will not get as good at those techniques as if you mix that with practicing techniques against people who are not trying to prevent you from performing them.

Of course. Like I said, it's a balance.

 

Considering the alive training methods already include that, why did you feel the need to mention it as a weakness then?

 

If you

- can punch my head within your next 20 punches, you win that round.
- can't, you lose that round.

Repeat for 15 rounds daily and record the result. Repeat for 1 year and see the progress.

 

But the first phase of that 4 corners drill has neither timing, energy nor movement from your partner, so would be considered dead training by Matt Thornton's logic.

 

The critical thing with the I-method (mat Thornton's coaching method using aliveness) is that the skill work is mostly explored/learned at the isolation stage. The isolation stage is essentially progressive resistance in drilling and objective based sparring. In this context you learn the nuances if how to implement a technique far better than just doing it on your own or with zero resistance. To appropriate your example of a hip throw David, drilling that with a compliment partner is not the same as drilling it with a progressively resisting partner as the unbalancing, sensitivity, timing and dynamic entry are all explored in the later but neglected in the former. Same for a jab, same for an armbar etc. You can refine on a biomechanical level just as well in the second method too, especially with good coaching.

As icefield says the results speak for themselves. On a personal level having experienced both I'd rather train the second way by far.

Just to reiterate it's not 0 or 100% resistance it's 0 to 100%

 

Agree!

If the moment that your fingers touch on your opponent's body, your opponent just drops to the ground and tries to play the ground game with you, you will never be able to develop your take down skill.

To

- "develop" a skill, you will need a non-resisted opponent who will give you that opportunity
- "test" a skill, you will need a resisted opponent who will not give you that opportunity and you have to create it.

 

Progressive resistance includes dead. It is the very balance between dead and alive that I was talking about.

You need a certain level of compliance to be able to concentrate on every aspect of your movement. Refinement takes a lot longer without slow, calm practice.

You and dead_pool seem to be saying the same thing as me; that you start dead and build up resistance. This was my first point: that saying only alive is good because only dead is bad is making a false dichotomy.

 

One where did anyone say ever the drill should always have someone trying to prevent you from.doing anything?

Two where did anyone say anywhere you never go back to isolate and indeed introduction methods to perfect the skill.?

Please point anywhere Matt has ever said any of the above? Or indeed anyone on this thread?

That's the problem people who do sports and combat sports get it straight away, it's nothing new judo has done it for decades you warm up.with balance breaking and drilling throws, with little or no resistance you then randori at different levels of intensity, you isolate spar such as grip sparring, only forward Forbes etc then you integrate. And you repeat the above its nothing new but the point is the whole isolated and induction process teaches you skills and movements you will actually use in the integrated sparring session. And that's the did allot of traditional guys go nuts over