[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3r59hDG3Vw"]YouTube[/ame] Kano Sensei doing the Koshiki no Kata. Both tori and uke are supposed to be in armour. The first technique is a counter to a hip throw. Here is some Sosuishi Ryu kumi uchi [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cMXwf3TC_s"]YouTube[/ame] Again the first technique is a counter to a hip throw.
What the bear is talking about - and in Scotland we call them pavement dancers - are the folks that will start to give you a shoeing as you are on the ground. His mates won't be helping in picking their friend up, they will be helping in terms of stamping your head in as you are both in the ground. Happened to my mate once quite a few years ago.
I understand this fact. My response was to the comment that attackers hold on. So if you do the throw properly he wont hold on.
Ha, Keep dreamin' Ogmios. All they need to do tangle you up for a second and it's game over. The Bear.
Your telling me that after smashing someone's head into the ground full force he is going to be fighting He'll be lucky to be alive...
Changing your posts on me... Wise guy As I responded to piratebrido, I was talking about an attacker who holds on, not multiple attackers.
While one doesn't like to reference ones self but what I said. Brido was backing this point of view. The Bear.
And again, I reiterate that I was responding to the holding on, not the multiple attackers! :topic: The strange thing is that in Science and Engineering research, people love to reference themselves...
Yeah love to see you defend that one in court. Ogmios - "Well you see, it was like this, my training taught me to smash the head full force into the ground." Judge - "Yes Mr. Ogmios and we'll be seeing you in around 20 years then." The Bear.
Yes my plan is to go and kill people in fights with sacrifice throws... One only resorts to techniques of this level when NEEDED. With the fights I have been in I have simply gotten away with defending myself, just blocking attacks. I had no problems with this. But if a BIG STRONG guy comes at my family threatening to kill them with intent, I am taking him down hard and fast, a'la sutemi. Here is Australia, this is a defence!
Are we still talking about Sutemi (Sacrifice Throws)? First the skill of the opponent is to be considered. (1) Inexperienced fighters tend to lose their balance and stumble to regain it. (2) More skilled fighters when they lose their balance tend to grab on to the opponent and use that to regain their balance or take the other person down with them. (3) Extremely skilled fighters tend to counter before they lose their balance. The best times to use Sutemi is when the opponent loses their balance and they grab on to you (see #2 fighter above). Sutemi is often a counter move leading to a particularly nasty fall which can end a fight by twisting the spine/neck. I do not agree that Sutemi is for when you lose balance because all the opponent needs to do is collapse, since you have already lost your balance, there is little you can do to control their "dead weight" when they collapse (unless you retain your balance).
Ummm....best thing is to keep your mouth shut and not to mention anything like: "I've had 20 years training in the deadly martial art that's just like...mate....fully sick aye. Therefore I executed this kung-fu-dancing-nage on him that left the C3 and 4 vertebrae smashed to pieces..." Saying that you do martial arts or to describe what you do as a technique, you'd be nuts. lol Not that it was the point....but still....
Yep will be telling you as soon as it happens... I mean when do I plan to get in this sort of situation... um, never. I am talking home invasion. The laws here have changed recently to protect the home owner when they "defend" themselves as things were getting out of hand. Get real. I am not going out looking for situations to test my skill. I am training for that one time I never want to come. Like I said so far I have just dodged kicks and blocked punches, I did not think any more was needed. BTW these incidences were the result of old friends getting themselves into fights that I tried to break up. The principle is that sutemi have a place, and defending ones family is the perfect place, since it is "sacrifice". Regards,
Ogimos and the rest do have points though. Yes, there are sutemi that I would not do in a multiple attacker situation or (I reiterate again) even in one to one combat, sutemi is not and never a primary option, BUT not every sutemi ends up with you on the ground and having the get up quickly, if you think that then you have a very narrow view of sutemi-waza, cause there are ones that you can "roll with" and not only use your weight to get them down but use their momentum to get up and is an integral part of the technique itself. Also, not all sutemi require you to be unbalanced, some just "fit" in nicely in that situation, but most follow like every other technique...starting with you getting out of the way of the attack, unbalancing and then applying sutemi.
Yeah, I'm just trying to say that both you guys are right....in each respective situation. You guys are not completely laying out the exact scenarios as each other, which is why you have conflicting opinions.
When using cadavers as the original crash test dummies for gathering data relating to the effects of a car crash it was discovered that the average human forehead can withstand a momentary impact in excess of 10 tonnes with little effect! Just a thought.
